By Jeremy Schoemaker

Jeremy "ShoeMoney" Schoemaker is the founder & CEO of ShoeMoney Media Group, and to date has sold 6 companies and done over 10 million in affiliate revenue. In 2013 Jeremy released his #1 International Best selling Autobiography titled "Nothing's Changed But My Change" - The ShoeMoney Story. You can read more about Jeremy on his wikipedia page here.

136 thoughts on “How Infusionsoft cost me 50k but gave me a great education”
  1. That really sucks that it happened to you.

    Infusionsoft’s stupid comments about supporting you are not cool at all. The executive didn’t sound like he cared much.

    Give them the middle finger lol

  2. …wow…thats nuts. I’m sorry but every time I read:
    “this has happened to “much bigger” people then me and they always come back stronger.”
    I was dying laughing. Hard lesson to learn who NOT to do business with.

  3. Honestly I never considered Infusionsoft, I’m launching a new service in a month and I was already thinking about HasOffers or iDevAffiliate just for the simple fact that I’ve yet to hear anything negative about them.

    Thanks for this though, this will be a good reference for anyone considering Infusionsoft.

    And how dare they say it’s happened to companies much bigger than you are, WTF? That’s not reassuring.

  4. What a crappy situation… sorry you had to go through it but I thank you for opening up and sharing this experience with everyone, hopefully this will save someone else from having to go through the same thing (and give you the fulfilling feeling of letting Infunsionsoft know exactly how you feel)

  5. Wow. Just wow. It doesn’t take an MBA to know this is going to cost them some serious business.

    Good job exposing your situation. I think some heads will roll for this.

  6. Wow I wonder how many heads are rolling there now. Thanks for sharing and reminded us how improtant out choices are. Picking the wrong vendor can be a huge mistake especially if you lack the skills and resources to correct a major problem like you did.

  7. That is crazy man, thanks for the heads up. I for one definitely wont be doing business with inufsionsoft. I just can’t get passed how one error from one of your affiliates shut down your account. That’s just outrageous, they don’t send up flags or anything letting you know somethings wrong. Infusionsoft just has a poor quality system I think we all should avoid.

  8. We all make that mistake, getting busy/lazy and not at least having backups in place to switch over to, I have done it more time than I care to admit as well. Not to the tune of 50k luckily. What I can’t believe is how little your “friend” at the company did to help you right away, that’s just incompetence as a person and as a company as a whole.

  9. “Infusionsoft makes it very easy to process credit cards, run your own affiliate network, and email. But the truth of the matter is while it CAN do all of those its not very good at any of them individually.”

    Wow! Never heard a more true statement. I’ll expand… Infusionsoft sucks and for the price really sucks!

  10. This sucks no doubt. This also doesn’t discount the fact that Infusionsoft is a helluva solution. If you’ve ever sat down and used you will realize while it takes MULTIPLE products to do what it does. I’d take it over aweber, idevaffiliate, etc. etc. any day of the week. Their 1200 member user conference also speaks volumes.

    I hope they fix whatever process caused this in the future. I also hope the attitude gets fixed of the people you dealt with. I’d be just as pissed as you are if this happened to me.

  11. WOW . . . That’s a great lesson for everbody, but I can’t get over the executive’s reaction. No better way to give a client the finger than to tell them that they’re too small for you to give a shit about. Geez…

  12. It’s scary how it shows that you are only safe with your products inhouse !

    I was considering using infusionsoft, They’re out of my list !

    I wish I had the notoriety shoemoney has to let the world know when a company
    gives me poor service.

    OH and btw, if you lost 30k$ this day, it also means, you make 30+$k every other day, so I guess we all pay the price that makes us move forward !!

    Thanks for sharing.

  13. Thanks for openly sharing your experience. That’s crazy! I’ve heard similar negative things about Infusionsoft, although I’ve heard a few negative ones about other companies too. I’ll have to check out HasOffers.

  14. Hey Jeremy,
    Infusionsoft sounds like google and paypal. I think the larger picture is, why are these bigs companies like that? When infusionsoft talked about “bigger people that this has happened to”, sounded like a well rehearsed answer. I am sorry you had the hard lesson but you get to make a choice and move on. Btw, this older woman doesn’t have a problem with words, so vent away.

  15. Now Thats breaking news! Thanks for sharing that. I can really sense your frustration. That’s how I feel basically anytime I call customer service with all the phone prompts, waiting and oversea reps–except I’m not losing 50k.

    Guess I’ll now need to check out Aweber and Has Offers. Oh, just saw your sh*tlist…gonna have to check that out. Sounds like more fun reading!!!

  16. I went and looked at the platform you moved to – HasOffers. I realized that you probably needed something that IS wasn’t. HasOffers + Aweber is not really a straight comparison to IS. Heck – IS may not have been a good choice because it was the wrong tool for the job to begin with.

  17. This reminds me a lot of my $45,000 web hosting mistake. Maybe I’ll blog about that in the future.

    1. im waiting for ur post john.

      Hi jeremy,
      thanks for sharing ur opinion

      i was thinking to move from aweber to infusionsoft. Now i think infusionsoft hates us more than we do hate them. 🙂

  18. I love Infusionsoft and believe that they deliver a tremendous product. I’ve always appreciated their customer service and technical support.

    But they clearly dropped the ball on this one. I’m worried about their ‘shut down now, answer questions later’ policy. Hopefully they learn a lot from this on improving their communication, processes, and policies.

    1. Chad,

      Thanks for sharing your experiences about our customer support and software. It’s truly appreciated!

      The situation Jeremy referred to was over five months ago, but we have solidified our processes around this so it’s seamless for users to address these matters. In rare circumstances, we have to take immediate action – and that may include suspending service a customer uses in order to preserve the greater-good of our email infrastructure for all our users.

      We work hard to enforce our Acceptable Use Policy among all users in a way that is fair and equitable — and effective to respond to spam situations. Rest assured, that have an improved process and system to make these matters just a bit easier for our users. 🙂

      Let me know if you have any additional questions.

      Joseph Manna
      Community Manager, Infusionsoft

      1. Thanks Joseph, I appreciate your response and – like I said – I’m stoked about using Infusionsoft and have been very impressed with all the work you guys are doing to constantly improve and add value to your product. InfusionCon livestream was awesome.

          1. For what it’s worth, it’s not made up. I’m just a happy Infusionsoft customer. Well, I’m not a customer myself – but I manage a company’s Infusionsoft account and have seen the results it can produce.

      2. You have many EXTREME, CRAZY SPAM HATERS that get over-zelous about reporting everything they happen to not like whether it’s spam or not!

        DON’T jump the gun on it immediatly and do your due-diligence before you shut anything down!

        People’s livelyhoods depend on it sometimes.

  19. Poor Infusionsoft, it only costed you 30k, but it is going to cost them hell lot more in business, when people read this blog post and don’t do business with them or worse yet, move off to another company.

    And you know whats worse?

    They have no one else to blame, but themselves!

  20. customer service is so important and maybe the most important thing in business…. I still don’t understand why they did not contact the person that disable the account right away…. o_O… if this is the first class customer service .. what’s the regular customer service look like…..? … …

  21. It’s funny because some people that I know in the business that have dealt with Infusionsoft (referred mostly by ConfusionSoft) all have the same level of anger when they talk about the company.

    These guys were big-time in that whole Dan Kennedy crowd so I’m sure those are the people he is talking about when he says “much bigger people”. What a dips**t.

  22. I’ve not used Infusionsoft, but had considered it multiple times. I’ve learned the same thing though about having a single point of failure.

    If one platform can do everything, it can also cost you everything.

  23. Hi Jeremy,

    I think most people would agree with your decision to quit Infusionsoft. Not everybody would post the story though, I suppose. But I am glad you did. Interessting story.

    AHAPBIP is very very important. What? Always have a plan B in place. Easier said than done.

    Cheers Steve

  24. I agree INFUSIONSOFT sucks I’ll never use them, and will never recommend them either!

  25. Thank you for reminding me why over the past 4 years, while we’ve considered moving to Infusion many times….we haven’t. And I’m glad we haven’t.

    Sorry to hear about your disaster, but I’m sure you’ll bounce back just fine.

  26. Wow – never using Infusionsoft now! Thanks for paying for my education too…

  27. I dropped Infusionsoft a few months ago as well. I didn’t have these type of problems, but a combo of bad email deliverability rates and them not being able to do a few of the MOST basic marketing processes (like take Paypal for a continuity program) got me to move.


  28. This is the typical M.O. at Confusionsoft aka Infusionsucks.

    They literally cost my former company hundreds of thousands over the year – but as you have shown, it’s my fault for not taking massive action to get out of there while it all kept adding up. We were in DEEP with them – after months to “integrate” with them, having hundreds of different products, lists, campaigns, affiliate links, order forms, etc etc – the fear of the pain of trying to “undo” everything was massive.

    The worst part is dealing with the imcompetence, the slowness, “crickets”….no answers, and the whole keystone cops routine when mission critical stuff is down and big gobs of money are going down the drain.

    From my experience, my opinion is that it’s a trickle-down effect in the organization FOR SURE. The executives are clueless about business protocols, they are arrogant, and flat out don’t care about their clients business.

  29. Jeremy,

    Thanks for taking the time to share your experience about our company. We’re sorry for how this has impacted your business and unfortunate amount of pain that you experienced trying to get it back up and running. While I am glad you are in a stable position now, I want to let you and your readers know this was edge-case and is not common nor expected in their typical experience with Infusionsoft. It’s equally as important they understand some context for these matters. First of which is timing – this incident occurred nearly five months ago in November 2010.

    We work to approach all abusive situations with the mindset of education and not punitive harm to the business. We desire the immediate attention of the business owner so they become receptive to our advice and take swift action. I think we can agree that we poorly communicated to you about this in this instance. No debate there.

    As you volunteered, it came down to an affiliate who egregiously violated our Acceptable Use Policy (AUP) and it placed your account and our company at significant risk. For reference, our AUP is accessible at

    Affiliates pose as much risk as they are an asset when they promote products and services. When affiliates incur spam complaints (regardless of which email provider they use), the companies (and domains) they include in their messages pay the price in terms of email reputation and ability to deliver messages.

    I want to clarify that the contact you have held private contact with was Colin Daymude, who is director of business development. His world revolves around close relationships and he had rapport to discuss matters like this closely like you have.

    I want to add some explanation to the paraphrased line, “this has happened to much bigger people and they come back stronger.” This lacks meaningful context around this statement. It meant that we have worked with customers who have incurred spam complaints with even larger list sizes and they have adopted our practices and have rebounded to become one of our best users. That is, it was to assure you that we could recover from this without any long-lasting effects. Nothing condescending or personal insults were implied here – simply stating matter of fact for your experience.

    Rest assured this was an isolated incident – it’s not often affiliates mail to spamtraps and become detected by SpamCop, not just once, but several in a very short period of time. This was of the utmost of importance because without an immediate response, thousands of users could lose the ability email their customers and prospects. The byproduct of this immediate response is sometimes decisions are performed a delay in communication to the affected customer. It looks like you were able to contact us quicker than we were able to call you, which suggests why you received some inconsistent responses to your questions from our team.

    Today, we are in a much more stable position. We have a system that will automatically dispatch a communication to any customer who violates the AUP and will empower them to appeal it by following specific instructions enclosed in the message. Further, we have more staff who can communicate and handle these matters quicker. While this offers no remedy to your experience, it does show that we have made progress to improve the ‘darker’ side of our user experience.

    What can your readers glean from this experience? One suggestion would be to actively manage, set and enforce guidelines for affiliates. They are “affiliates” of your business and as such, you are responsible for their behavior. Likewise, be cognizant of the Acceptable Use Policy in effect to whichever service(s) handle your email, ecommerce or customer database.

    We respect the views of our users and wouldn’t touch their account even if they share critical views about our company. Please don’t think we operate like other companies you’ve dealt with in the past – because we just aren’t that way.

    Again, I am sorry for your experience and you have every right and reason to share it with the world. We appreciate the opportunity to have worked with you and regret the circumstances in our parting of ways. If you or your readers have further questions about Infusionsoft, please don’t hesitate to contact me.

    Joseph Manna
    Community Manager, Infusionsoft

    1. Sorry your comment did not appear. Ironically Akismet wordpress spam filter has your ip address as spam. I mean how fricking ironically hilarious is that!

      1. Thanks, Jeremy.

        Looks like I made a few typos in that … at least you can see I’m human. 😉

        I hope it added some clarity to this less than ideal situation. We’re here if you or anyone else who may have further questions.


    2. yeah right mate, you need to up your game. Now you are exposed to the big and wider online marketers stop making excuses.

    3. @Joseph Manna

      After hearing what shoemoney had to say about your company and your ridiculous rational on the matter, It is Crystal clear that Infusionsoft is just another third rate provider that likes to hide behind stiff corporate rules and TOS rather then being a 2.0 type company that really cares about there business and the service there customers get.

      Let me put it this way, had “I” been the owner of Infusionsoft, I would have fired the guy that pulled the trigger on stopping his affiliate links and the jackasses that told him “things have happened to people much bigger than me and I will be stronger because of it.” and after hearing your “Stiff corporate” reply to his issue on this blog, you would get canned as well.

      O yea, by the way, let me fill you in on one more thing that you (can’t possible understand), THE WHOLE ONLINE AFFILIATE MARKING WORLD LISTENS/READ/LOVES SHOEMONEY AND HIS “HONESTY” so once word gets out to all of the affiliate world about how you did him AND how thats suppose to make him “STRONGER” for it, you can simply say goodbye to any future biz in this affiliate market.

      In case you still don’t understand, I will put it simply like this……If you will do SHOEMONEY like this, then there’s no telling how BADLY you would do the rest of us in this biz.

      In closing, I want to tell Joseph Manna and the whole Infusionsoft team to go and suck rock’s 🙂

      1. Barry,

        I appreciate your perspective and want to say I’m sorry if my response came off the wrong way. I wanted to add some context and clarity to this situation.

        I have nothing but respect for affiliate marketing. The point in what I was saying that affiliates *could* cause legitimate damage to the deliverability just as the email sender can.

        Our organization is compassionate and understanding with the reality that our customers go through to grow their business. This example should not be viewed as the standard operating practice for how we handle spam complaints.

        We’ve learned just as much from this as Jeremy has and I apologize for the great deal of pain he went through because of it.

        If you have questions, please let me know. I want to show you that we are a caring and compassionate company that is rooted in the success of entrepreneurs.

        Joseph Manna
        Community Manager, Infusionsoft

        1. Being a guy who implements hundreds of high level internet marketing projects a year, I feel like I need to jump in and give my two cents.

          First, Shoemoney, you are not the first person I have heard rail against Infusionsoft.

          Second, the way it was handled is ridiculous to say the least. It should have never gotten to the level you had to experience, it should have been escalated immediately to someone who can get direct answers.

          BUT, I also own a company that is growing EXTREMELY fast and I understand of standardizing processes.

          The one thing I do know is, Infusionsoft does indeed care deeply about their clients and if given time, they will go to the ends of the earth trying to make it right. Of which is apparent by Joseph coming into this obviously hostile situation and taking the hits, because he does care.

          Please note, I DO NOT WORK FOR INFUSIONSOFT, but I have implemented hundreds of projects that use web based CRM’s and NO, Infusionsoft is not the only one we use. Sales force, Aweber, Mailchimp, Netsuite, etc..

          At the end of the day, the updates and evolution of their app is easily beating the competition, the new release addresses a lot of Shoemoney’s concerns, but that is obviously to little to late.

          Infusionsoft is a great platform, but not for everyone. If you have not looked at it lately, you might want to give it another look.


      2. Barry – Do you even know what the product does? Do you know anybody at the company ? Or is your entire assessment based on a single blog post?

        Please do some fact check and make and informed decision before so casually blowing off a decent. If you entire world revolved around making decisions based on exactly what shoemoney says then you could very easily make a huge mistake one day.

        SM is a person with an opinion. You’d be hard pressed to find anybody who has (or is using IS) that has the same opinion.

    4. Shutting down a whole account because of one affiliate doing shady thing? Scary!

      I’d love to see Amazon shut down their whole affiliate program for 24hours after an affiliate sends a spam email that get caught in a spamtrap, because (and I quote you): “Affiliates pose as much risk as they are an asset when they promote products and services.”

      Hey, let’s kill this ant with a rocket launcher… just to be on the safe side…

    5. Oh and BTW, how can you say: “Rest assured this was an isolated incident” when the support clearly said that “this has happened to much bigger people”…

      Not so isolated maybe?

    6. I can almost see the side of things where if one account has affiliates doing shady things, it could damage the reputation of everyone. In that case infusionsoft would have to look out for their own business and other clients too. On the other hand it would have made more sense to A. Contact the owner of the account, Shoemoney in this case, to handle the affiliate. B. Disable the shady affiliate account, not the whole program account.

      I can’t say I buy the explanation of the “bigger clients than you” line. I’m pretty sure they meant it how it sounds. It’s kind of hard to take it the other way, even though it sounds good and encouraging.

    7. Lol, I have seen more bad press about InfusionSoft than good. This might be an isolated incident, but there sure are quite a bit of marketers who have other isolated incidents to share.

      The attitude/response from InfusionSoft in dealing with customer’s issues; however, is anything but isolated.

  30. Wow. Calling it a communication issue is putting it mildly. It would make more sense for them to disable that affiliate than the whole account over just one report. That and tell you they’re doing so until proof is given that the signup was legit.

    1. Stephanie,

      Thanks for sharing your feedback. We are examining this situation further and exploring additional ways we can enhance our user experience, even through situations like this.

      Currently, we have a much more user-friendly way of informing customers who find themselves in spam compliance issues and we have additional support staff who are empowered to resolve such concerns.

      I’m happy to answer any additional questions about Infusionsoft – my email address is below.

      Joseph Manna
      Community Manager, Infusionsoft

  31. fact It doesn’t take an MBA to know this is going to cost them some serious business.

    Good job exposing your situation. I think some heads will roll for this.

  32. Freaking awesome that you switched within 2 hours..

    Great way to get the last laugh (and dollars)


  33. “I honestly don’t care if I have offended them. As of this point in the day I have lost more money then all of their first class tickets combined.”

    I honestly love your blog, but earning big $$ doesn’t give you the right to act like a douche to other people.

  34. Its a shame that this happened to you. One of the perks of working for yourself is choosing who you will do work with. That is not the case for those delegated tasks from their employers. I’m glad you can use your blog as a platform to call out scrubs.

  35. Jeremy, Confusionsoft sucks, i mean they fucking suck!!! Good move on the aweber’ hasoffers, api processing.

    I tried infusionsoft once. they fucking suck suck suck!

    1. Rich,

      Sorry you feel that way. Please contact me and I will be happy to help with any concerns you have about our software, service and support.

      Joseph Manna
      Community Manager, Infusionsoft

      1. Joseph,

        It says something positive about your company now that you have taken a professional stance in responding to this negative feedback.

        You guys are going to need to offer a legitimately free 30 day trial without taking credit cards and locking people in to rebills. The largest affiliates and advertisers have had a lot of negative experiences with your company.

        When Jeremy had told me he was using your company before I laughed. We had charged back on you guys after you started billing us after we cancelled.

        Overall your service has a very bad reputation in this industry – and word travels fast. My suggestion to you is to go above and beyond to legitimately get people to test your service out once the kinks are removed. Otherwise your best bet is to rebrand.

  36. Thanx for sharing. If I’ve learned anything it’s that life is too short to make all it’s mistakes by myself. I have decide to learn from your instead. Thanx for my free education at the expense of your 30K education.

  37. I can feel the frustration in this post, take it easy & think of your blood pressure 😉

    Lesson learned though.

  38. I am one of your affiliate promoting Shoemoneysystem with the infusion interface and what are the steps to get our links updated to the new system.

  39. I am one of your affiliate for your shoemoneysystem and can you share what are the steps to get to the new hasoffers system.

    Last comment went into spam and so posting one more and I hope this does not go into spam.

  40. Wow, another account of an Infusionsoft nightmare…

    The problem is that Infusion are one of only two solutions I know that offer proper lead-tagging and let you automate follow-up and processes based on user behaviour and user tags. I am using the other one, OfficeAutopilot.
    Unfortunatley, it’s not without serious issues either.

    For me, Aweber is problematic, to say the least, because of their shoddy third-party implementation (e-mail parsing and forced double-opt-in) and because they are list-based and don’t allow multiple follow-ups unless you put people on different lists.
    If you have several products and want to have individual follow-ups, there’s no way to set Aweber up so that it recognizes who has bought multiple products from you and therefore, say, doesn’t need to get your welcome sequence anymore.

    Setting up lead-tagging and dynamic follow-up makes a huge difference. Someone please create a service that gets it right.


    1. Since I just started using IS I’d like to know what landmines you are running into that I need to be aware of.

  41. Now THAT is a f#cking story! (why do I feel the need to swear? lol)

    Sorry to hear that Shoe and let’s hope you’ve just saved someone a lot of money.


    P.S. why didn’t you use Paypal? 😛

  42. Wow, that was a long but informative post. At least now I know not to use Infusionsoft for anything, even though I don’t think I would anyways. Glad you got things moved though.

  43. I got lucky. The Aweber / HasOffers / merchant API is the model we went with primarily because we couldn’t afford Infusionsoft as a start up. The idea was to migrate to a ‘better’ service later on. As it happens, we felt the set up we had was working really well, was scalable and was cost effective.

  44. Crazy story Jeremy; I am about to post a similar story on my blog in the next few weeks. Not nearly as costly as yours. Although, I could be wrong.

    Funny thing; I was at Search Engine Strategies here in New York and I vendor actually recommended Infusionsoft. Perhaps I should forward him this post?

  45. Do they plan on compensating you? Do you have any legal ground to sue them for loss of revenue? They are clearly in the wrong. 1000%.

  46. I am in the process of developing products for my site and one do the biggest things that i am concerned about when i go about selecting a company to process my affiliate program is customer service, and I am glad you shared this experience, because if they are not willing to treat their biggest account with dignity I know i can not expect the best .

    1. So Joe Manna’s reply was caught up as spam and yet you somehow allow this kind of garbage comment to appear. Maybe you need to fix your spam guard, Jeremy.

  47. cheers for this good information ill recommend your blog to every single one of my colleagues as we have all been looking for this for ages.

  48. Jeremy – I’m reading your post tonight and I want to first tell how you that I’m sorry you experienced this. We pride ourselves in helping thousands of entrepreneurial small businesses just like yours to manage and automate their marketing and sales with Infusionsoft. It doesn’t feel great to read yours or some of the other comments here.

    Running a business is hard. It’s not for the faint of heart as you very well know. We know it too. And despite our growth over the years from a small start-up founded by three young guys to operating a business with 6500 customers today, we’re passionate entrepreneurs at heart intent on making customers happy and doing the right thing. We’re focused on making entrepreneurs lives easier with marketing automation. But we’re not perfect. And we’re always working to improve on what we do. Our email compliance team works really hard to protect our email reputation and deliverability. We take it very seriously because it impacts all other customers.

    I’ll personally look into how we can improve our processes related to what you experienced, because as with anything else in life, there’s always room for further improvement. Please accept my apology on behalf of Infusionsoft.

    Clate Mask, Co-founder & CEO, Infusionsoft

  49. Shoe…You should have told the exec after you moved to the other platforms that it “Would make him stronger” and then hung up

    Thanks for the info and will be sure to stay clear of Infusionsoft. Some companies don’t understand the “smith principle” that for every one person that hears about a good thing you do, 50 people will hear about a screw up. hmmmm probably more than 50 will hear about this

  50. Jeremy – I’m reading your post tonight and I want to first tell how you that I’m sorry you experienced this. We pride ourselves in helping thousands of entrepreneurial small businesses just like yours to manage and automate their marketing and sales with Infusionsoft. So it doesn’t feel great to read yours or some of the other comments here.

    Running a business is hard. It’s not for the faint of heart as you very well know. We know it too. And despite our growth over the years from a small start-up founded by three young guys to operating a business with 6500 customers today, we’re passionate entrepreneurs at heart intent on making customers happy and doing the right thing. We’re focused on making entrepreneurs lives easier with marketing automation.

    But we’re not perfect. And we’re always working to improve on what we do. Our email compliance team works really hard to protect our email reputation and deliverability. We take it very seriously because it impacts all other customers.

    I’ll personally look into how we can improve our processes related to what you experienced, because as with anything else in life, there’s always for further improvement. Please accept my apology on behalf of Infusionsoft.

    Clate Mask
    Co-founder & CEO

    1. Clate – here’s one – make sure someone with actual horsepower reviews before turning off an account. Then before you turn it off, call the account with the specific reason it’s going on hold.

      Next, get involved on key hires like ‘Barry’ above. I’m having a hard time believing the guys smart enough to create Infusionsoft gave any OK or even review to his responses here.
      Or hire an outside PR firm that can craft a decent reply to a critical business issue like this incident.

      This isn’t rocket science.
      The message is very clear to everyone ‘smaller’ than Shoemoney.

      And for any other firm – I’m writing this on Feb 20, 2012.
      Screw-You-Customer service is a very long tail keyword phrase.

  51. I really enjoyed reading your posting! Reminds me of the lesson that I have learnt by losing money too. All these lessons that we have learnt will make us going stronger and smarter in future. Thanks for sharing your precious experience.

  52. I posted this on another forum, that had directed me to this post:
    Shoemoney’s story is compelling, but as with anything, there are two sides to it.

    While it sucks to lose that much money, when your primary business is affiliate marketing and using affiliates, there’s inherent risks. As there is with any buisness. Whenever you have a loss like that you have to fully assess the causes, and if his assessment is that it’s all IS’s fault, well then so be it. For everyone else watching and taking up Shoemoney’s offense, and not paying attention to the corrective actions IS has put in place, to help his type of incident from happening again. Yeah, they screwed up, but on the flip side it revealed some serious issues that needed to be addressed and they addressed them.

    As with any software or system, your are going to have your success stories and your “crash and burns”,
    that’s where we as business owners have the ability to make informed choices that are best for our business.

    Many of the gripes on this thread, while they may be real to that person or company, doesn’t mean that they their gripe is valid for the next person.

    Here’s the ironic part.

    I’d like to sign back up for IS, I understand the pros and cons of their system.
    Yet they want me to pay the $1500 upfront cost again, or prepay 12 months (as a former user).
    I’ve already paid it once, plus some,
    and right now can’t afford it again, nor feel that I should have to pay it AGAIN.

    Bummer, I’ve looked at the other systems out there, and it’s not that there
    aren’t viable options, I was just ready to make IS work for what I’m doing.

    C’est la vie

  53. Shoe,
    I thought you were using Clickbank initially? Did you drop them and then switch to Infusion?

  54. I haven¡¦t checked in here for a while as I thought it was getting boring, but the last few posts are great quality so I guess I will add you back to my everyday bloglist. You deserve it friend 🙂

  55. Well this certainly is an interesting blog post, and judging from the number of responses, people have a lot of opinions, so let me add mine.

    I don’t care WHAT company you look at, when put under a microscope, I absolutely guarantee you can find a story like this. A story where things went terribly wrong in the communication with a client, as an owner of multiple ‘bricks & mortar’ businesses, I have fallen prey to poor communication by myself or someone on my staff more than once.
    But to make a blanket statement that ‘they don’t care’ I think is just foolish. Did they screw up? Sure? Does this mean they don’t care? You know in your heart that simply isn’t true.
    I’ve met most of the executive staff at Infusionsoft, and know many of them personally, and I will look anyone in the eye and say ‘They care.’
    Have they experienced growing pains? YUP. Has it affected my business, and have I lost money because of it? YUP.
    But what you have failed to communicate is that NO MATTER WHAT system you use, there are problems/failures and breakdowns – this IS the very nature of business itself, and managing the chaos is what separates the ‘men from the boys’ in the real business world.
    You want to do affiliate marketing without doing your homework on your affiliates first? That’s cool, but you’d better be ready (prepared) for what might come as a result of that.
    You simply cannot deny that Infusionsoft, while not perfect, is the platform of choice for most of the biggest names out there. Need I drop some?

    In my measure of a company’s greatness, (and an individuals for that matter) it’s not WHETHER a problem occurs (they always will) it’s how they respond to that problem that matters.

    How did you respond Joe? Shouting obscenities at a tech guy on an airplane because you lost some money?

    If you truly are the money man you claim to be, then you of all people know, money can always be replaced, but your time, and your honor, can never be.

    I love Infusionsoft, and the things I’ve been able to do with it are simply astounding, and No you cannot do those things with AWebber (a better platform? please…)

    In my time working with them, I’ve seen a company dedicated to getting better in all areas, but I hope they keep their restrictions on people sending spam as tight as can be. I don’t want some greedy asshole messing it up for the rest of us.

    Best wishes,

    – Bob Britton

    1. this comment smells like an Infusion Soft PR employee trying to put a positive comment up about his company.

      Jeremy, mucho respect for putting Infusion Soft out there. 2.0 puts companies like this in check.

      Infusionsoft, you need to improve your services and understand that there are many more people out there that feel just like Jeremy feels. When I dealt with your company your staff gave us a really hard time when we tried to cancel the trial. A charge came through and you forced us to chareback with the credit card companies (we had cancelled).

      And to make matters worse you fought the chargeback so we had to do a double chargeback.

      Maybe things have changed out there, however it appears as if not enough has changed for a lot of people that we know to do business with you.

    2. Bob,

      Your comments above are not true. Since I’ve switched platforms I haven’t had ANY problems that are even close to the ones I had with Infusionsoft.

      And based on the number of negative posts and complaints on this page, it shows just how bad Infusionsoft is!

      FYI, the other platform to stay away from is KAJABI!!! It’s even WORSE!! If that’s possible!

  56. Jeremy- Sorry to hear about your “loss”. I know from experience, tough times, make tough people, so I trust you will conquer and grow from this experience.

    I attended “Conquer and Grow” where you spoke, and I thoroughly enJOYed your talk, furthermore I am sure infusionsoft brought your brand exposure in exchange for your time/travel/expenses, etc. (Are you drinking too much of your own cool aide?)

    May I please tell you a story?

    I started my business in 2006, to spend more time with family, earn more $$$, and “live the dream”, of business ownership. Well, I learned quickly how difficult it was, and turned to infusionsoft at the beginning of 2009 to automate many of the daily tasks that were affecting my business development activities. (As you know the process to automate, takes time however is “painfully worthwhile!”)

    Since this last downturn nearly 60% of people in my industry (Recruiters/Headhunters) have either lost their jobs or business’s, and that is slowly starting to change in recent months. (My industry is slowly recovering from a “BLOOD BATH”)


    My business nearly 2X last year, and the future is bright BECAUSE of Infusionsoft… The CXO’s, and staff care more than any other vendor I have EVER used in my business.

    I appreciate the fact that you brought attention to your concern over a vendor (These things happen), however what I am really interested in is if you are content with your “approach”?

    All the Best,

  57. Hey Jeremy,

    I don’t know if you remember me but we met briefly in the back of the room at Conquer and Grow where I also spoke. I thoroughly enjoyed your talk there.

    I can’t say I’ve had a similar experience with infusionsoft because it has totally transformed what we’re doing over here and I’ve told just about everyone about them. But I’ve been in similar situations with web hosts and payment processors so I do know where you’re coming from.

    Seeing my mentor, the late Corey Rudl’s company grow from like 15 folks to 170+, I’ve witnessed how communication can break down across different departments and I’m not excusing infusionsoft from that. And I know isolated events like this happen.

    But on a wider scale, infusionsoft is providing an incredible all-in-one solution that prior to moving to them, took around 7-8 services to manage. And since moving to them, I can tell folks on here that I’ve never had a problem. We’ve had our best 2 years ever since switching over. And I’m talking net profit, not just gross.

    Now granted, I’m in a different niche but I do have roughly 3000 affiliates. They aren’t as aggressive but we drive roughly 6 figures in traffic per month through our affiliate links alone without any problems.

    If anything, my issue is hitting the api too much. We hit it over 100k a day and they’ve made it crystal clear to me on several occassions, what I need to do to be more efficient with my requests. So I just felt the need to reply because my experiences have been totally different and I’ve entertained so many different services over the years.

    What I will say is whether you’re using adwords,, infusion, paypal — you are susceptible to things like this happening. I don’t think you can really spotlight a particular service over the other. I’ve awaken to being shut down by both google one day… adcenter a few days later for something that was totally fine a week before. I’ve had paypal freeze me on launch days. I’ve had my merchant account hold 6 figures for 90 days. But after all the drama, I’ve been back to using them because I realize they provide the best option for what I need to accomplish… and I understand they are really trying to do the greater good for the greater number, or else they’d clearly be out of business.

    That doesn’t excuse the lack of communication at all. But I’d hate for someone to miss their breakthrough with infusionsoft (as I’ve experienced) as this could really happen with any service at any given time if terms were broken (knowingly or unknowingly).

    So Jeremy, I feel you and respect your opinion. But if I hadn’t switched over from my past solution, I wouldn’t have experienced the best two years of my business career. Just my 2 cents.

    Take care,
    Jermaine Griggs

  58. Thanks for taking the time to talk about this, I feel fervently about this and I take pleasure in learning about this topic. Please, as you gain information, please update this blog with more information. I have found it very useful. There have to be charging stations everywhere.

  59. I was wondering if you ever considered changing the layout of your blog? Its very well written; I love what youve got to say. But maybe you could a little more in the way of content so people could connect with it better. Youve got an awful lot of text for only having one or two images. Maybe you could space it out better?

  60. I admit, I have not been on this webpage in a long time… however it was another joy to see It is such an important topic and ignored by so many, even professionals. I thank you to help making people more aware of possible issues.Great stuff as usual.

  61. As a provider of SaaS, I can relate to the struggles you went through from the vendor side, and it’s something that no one would want anyone to go through, ever. Unfortunately, businesses are made of human moving parts, and sometimes people make mistakes – and it sounds like (at least according to Mr Manna) you made an impact on their SOP.

    CoolerEmail does a lot of email marketing – we have for 10 years – and I have to say that when someone hits a spamtrap honeypot, the results can be widespread and disastrous. One spamtrap can cause a Spamhaus block on an entire /19 (I’ve seen it) if it goes to one wrong system administrator. The spam filtering organizations have made people that send email jumpy.

    That said, I hate to see things like this happen, but I have to admit that InfusionSoft recently made an indelible impact on me personally.

    Last summer we introduced an integrated suite of new products, many of which overlap InfusionSoft’s offering (email marketing, CRM, project management, landing pages, event management, etc). As a co-founder of CoolerEmail, I was giving a talk at a local San Diego event – the MIT Enterprise Forum. It’s an open forum where you discuss business strategy and get feedback from an audience of industry professionals. It’s supposed to be a constructive learning experience. As you can all imagine, it can be a little intimidating to open your company’s strategy to over 100 of your peers, but overall it was a great experience.

    After the talk, I had the distinct “pleasure” of meeting someone from InfusionSoft. A tall blonde guy whose name I can’t remember. The only thing I CAN remember about him are his words of constructive criticism: “you are headed for epic disaster and should just give up your company now”. He said it with a smile, too.

    After being in business for 10 years, it’s good to know where InfusionSoft stands (apparently, they want everyone else to be stronger). I’m not sure if it’s competitiveness or hubris, but after reading your story, it sounds like an issue of corporate culture.

    In the end, I’m just glad to hear you were able to find a good solution for your business!

  62. I want to thanks for the efforts you have contributed in writing this blogpost. I am hoping the same top-quality article from you in the future as well. In fact your creative writing abilities has inspired me to start my own blog now. Truly the blogging is spreading its wings rapidly. Your write up is a good model of it.

  63. I am a former IS customer and I have to say, yes it takes their support two weeks to get back to you.  So unless you have an expensive account like shoemoney, expect to wait.   It looks awesomely cool at seminars, but once you’re in, be aware its hard to get out.  

    You also have to invest a lot of money on top of the pricey monthly payment if you want to do anything like upsells, etc.  It’s another glorified system.

      I remember when I wanted to cancel, I had to call billing three times, and they would keep giving me the run around.  Finally three weeks later I hear nothing, so I tweet about and guess what…joseph manna contacts me

    Joseph is probably the only fast person at IS that may actually care about you.   I get a call from my IS coach and he cancells it.  That was a nightmare.  If you want slow support and runarounds, IS is the place to be.  

    Its sad to see so many problems and the responses shoemoney was given, as it was the same treatment I received.

  64. No Joseph Manna, Infusionsoft you are still doing stuff like this and not being proactive and contacting your client. They have to log in to find out the problem and see the flag. The size of the account doesn’t seem to have any bearing.

    Also your user interface is not user-friendly. Have you ever actually watched someone set up and account and search for instructions, help etc who is not a programmer and does not work for you? Trying to find what is going on is like searching for a needle in a haystack. It makes me wonder who tests your product before you release it live.

  65. Disclosure: I own Infusionsoft stock, I’m one of their larger affiliates and I know the founders and senior staff fairly well. I’ve read every comment in this thread.

    Jeremy, sorry you had this hideous experience. Yeah – it was hideous. I’d be furious if I were you.

    I think the most sane response of any was Bob Britton’s. Just because you have a circle-jerk experience with a company doesn’t mean they don’t give a crap about their customers. What it means is, they have major communication problems and those problems cost you money.

    Those problems cost Infusion money too.

    Vendor failures can kill a business overnight. How many customers do I have whose business has gotten killed by a Google ban? At least 1,000? But you can be sure the founders of Google ain’t visiting any of their blogs posting an apology.

    Infusion has a steep learning curve and sometimes inconsistent support. Used to be buggy; for me, isn’t so much anymore. I’ve been using it 5 years and never had a major problem. I’ve definitely dodged a bullet or two.

    Infusion’s culture is insanely systems driven and you can be sure they will put systems in place to make sure this particular mistake doesn’t happen again.

    Then somebody else will have another problem they never had before and they’ll get more black eyes. But they do care about their customers.

    I must take exception to the statement that Aweber is better. Is isn’t. I know because in addition to running my business on Infusion, I have 250,000 people on a separate Aweber system and it has painful limitations. Like requiring Double Opt-ins on most of my lists, which drives up the cost of EVERY lead I collect by 30%. Or not allowing you to move people from one list to another without them personally opting in to the second list. That’s just 2 problems.

    And if Aweber thinks you’re going to ruin their reputation as an email sender, they will shut you down in a hot second.

    One of my other friends is Rob Bell, founder of 1shoppingcart. I’ve heard some of his stories. And to be fair to all, the shopping cart / CRM / email delivery business is a TOUGH service to deliver. Not a business I’d care to run. I don’t think you’ll find a single one that doesn’t have stories like this.

    My own company has screwed up transactions, over billed people, done circle jerks, made changes that cost our customers money. We’ve made every mistake you could make. I am dearly thankful that most of my customers don’t publicly skewer me for my mistakes, like Jeremy did with Infusion.

    I think that is a disturbing trend – trashing people publicly over stuff like this. It’s been happening more lately. People on the Internet slamming other people because it draws a crowd, tweets and tons of comments.

    When info gets out on the Internet it stays there a long, long time. Years after the original problem or system has long been fixed.

    If I have a major problem with someone, I attempt to work things out with them privately. In my opinion you only take things public after the other person has given you the finger and shut down communication.

    I dearly hope that my customers will have the courtesy to treat me that way. Jeremy, surely you hope your customers treat you that way as well.


    Perry Marshall

  66. I spoke to infusion about using their services and decided not to use them because they wanted to charge me $1,500 up front for “training” which I didn’t need. I then received an email from the rep telling me that when I finished screwing around with other autoresponder providers that I would come back to infusion. This pissed me off, so I emailed the support person and told them to eat a d*ck. F**k infusion.

  67. I have only goo things to say about the service that I received from the people that I have been in contact with at Infusionsoft.

    However, I never did go ahead with them, but that was because I just found their processes too confusing. I concur that aweber is a better choice. And that hasoffers has everything one needs.,

  68. LMFAO @ INFUSIONSOFT —-> How are they going to overcharge me from $300 our agreement, to $700 ? And then tell me they have a zero-refund policy? Hello!! You overcharged me, it’s not a refund, it’s giving back money that’s not yours!!!! SMH— Shake My Head ! It’s amazing how the integrity of a company is transparent when it comes down to how they resolve the smallest of issues…. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

  69. While I completely understand your plight, the thought process is one of victimization and reaction, rather than ownership and proactivity.

    It is apparent that the quality of the affiliates was given little to no weight; especially if there are affiliates associated with shoemoney that get caught by spampots.

    I agree that the experience with tech support you received was less than optimal. However, had we taken ownership of the affiliate program initially (as you developed it), this would have never been an issue to begin with.

    A lot of the worlds problems are due to these thought patterns, those unwilling to accept responsibility who would rather point fingers. Call me an optimist, but if every person stopped being a whiny victim and took full responsibility for their life situation, homo sapiens as a species would be in a much better position to continue moving forward and taking advantage of these wonderful physical vessels 🙂

    My only hope, Jeremy, is that you begin to take full ownership of your business to prevent the possibility of anything like this in the future. Stop being a victim.


  70. Having worked in the deliverability industry I can tell you ESPs are between a rock and a hard place on this stuff. These companies that run these spam traps will blacklist entire domains and ip ranges on one spam trap hit. You may not think it works that way but the ISPs and spam groups really jerk ESPs around. So Infusionsoft shuts down your account and keeps mail flowing for the rest of their customer base. Seems like the right call to me. Face it your affiliate fucked up and got you burned. At least until you reached out. The whole situation past that was a fuck up for Imfusionsoft.

  71. One day I noticed I wasn’t making any sales with one particular online business. I tried logging into my Infusionsoft account and couldn’t get in. I called and they told me my credit card got denied for the monthly charge so they shut me down. When asked why they didn’t contact me, they said they didn’t have my contact information. WTF???? B.S! Not one email, phone call, or alert within the interface. They never tried contacting me yet obviously had numerous ways and opportunities to do so. Heck, they contacted me several times a week with their autoresponder trying to sell me whatever.

    I was down for over a month before I noticed then they told me I had to pay back fees to get back up and running. I said B.S. I had no service for a month, they never tried to contact me, why should I pay for that month? They said back pay or bust. I just wanted my contacts out of my list and was planning to migrate to another system and be done with them. They wouldn’t give me my contacts. Plus I believe there was a 30 day cancellation notice requirement at the time which I wasn’t willing to give them (forgive me, this was so traumatic I’ve tried hard to repress the whole experience and I don’t remember why my “owed” went from one month to two with them, still while having no access to the system and a credit card that was just fine).

    I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars building that email list and I believed it belonged to me. They held a B.S. ransom over it. I was so upset and frustrated, tried to talk to them, they had special warm and fuzzy coaches call me all with the same answer. I emailed Clate, nothing. They held their ground, they made a mistake, never owned up to it, kept my list. I grieved for a good 60 days trying to reconcile the principle of it all and if it was even worth it to me. I had spent buku bucks on consultants getting the whole system up and automated and the thought of redoing this somewhere else or staying with Infusion were both terrible options. Bottom line, I didn’t think it was right to pay them money they were not owed for services NOT rendered, I canned the whole business, they never gave me my contacts, and their collections people called me daily for 3 years over $600.

    Guess they had my phone number the whole time.

    BTW I confirmed with my credit card right away that the charge was never declined, never even initiated, nothing attempted, the account was fine. Complete scam. They disgust me.

  72. I had a problem with Infusionsoft also but at the less advanced end of their offering. They did a mas webinar offering my huge company growth sales success and the highest leads to customer ratio on the internet. For $2000 and $250 a month I would be a huge internet success. What I found out is they don’t do anything I have to do all the work. I wanted a cookie cutter system theirs was not that. after I exceeded my 8 1 hour sessions with still not results I then found out their system doesn’t work with quickbooks or ACT. When I asked for my money back they said not an option but you can have a free month. For the little guy with a 10 year old company doing $100,000 a month Infusionsoft is not the right company. They over promised under delivered, they had no ROI info, no business to business case studies and my specialist had never done BtoB. The Infusionsoft promise is “they keep the money” you do the work and they don’t work as promised.

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  74. Thanks for posting this Shoemoney. I’ve had similarly BAD experiences with Infusionsoft which caused me to cancel my account, fortunately it didn’t cost me as much money.

    However, when I finally cancelled my account with them, they said they would refund the money I had spent setting up my account, but they never did. When I contacted them back about it, which ended up being more than 60 days after they charged my card, they lied and said that they NEVER said they’d refund the money. And at that point, it was too late for me to dispute the amount with my credit card company, so they STILL owe me money back!

    I tell everyone that is considering different platforms to STAY AWAY from Infusionsoft! So I’m glad you’ve told this story, hopefully more people will listen.

    Regarding the posting above from the “Infusionsoft Rep”, NO YOU HAVEN’T FIXED YOUR SYSTEM! Nor will you. That’s the same story I’ve heard from your company over and over. That and the fact that it’s an “isolated incident”, when it’s not. The fact that people are still complaining years later shows that not only have you NOT fixed the problems, you don’t intend to fix them.

    It’s a very small industry and people talk, and they blog, and they tweet and they post on facebook. And the complaints will continue to come. And the BS will continue to flow from the lips of your staff. I’ve even met previous staff at events who quit because they couldn’t take the BS anymore.

    STAY AWAY FROM INFUSIONSOFT!!! They haven’t fixed anything! And they won’t in the future because they have a high and mighty attitude that makes them think they don’t have to!

    1. InfusionSoft has cost me money in a couple of ways. First, they sold me on a trial of their system. It turned out to be a glorified and expensive autoresponder.

      When I was unhappy with what I bought, I asked for a refund and they didn’t bother to give me ANY of my money back saying that they don’t do refunds – WTF … So, it’s a paid trial with no refunds (when they very obviously gave me the impression, it’s a 60-day trial).

      I consider myself fleeced by them on this one. So, whatever they say … they suck. For folks who support them and use them – they suck too and I’ll tell you why.

      I invest in many products for my business, and many people actually use this junk. Now, I was part of a membership for which I was paying a recurring monthly fee.

      Suddenly one month, I got dinged for like 15 charges. The vendor was aware of this and went in and had to manually reverse transactions for quite a few of the members.

      For ANYONE who is in a foreign country like me where the exchange rate varies, it cost us big time on conversions AND interest on a credit card and it was all the fault of their buggy system.

      Why people still use and recommend it, I will never understand.

      After my experiences, I don’t use them. I don’t recommend them and … I stopped buying anything from people who use them.

      And … the post does not seem to be an isolated incident. I find they’re great at finding these type of posts and trying to counteract them by offering their opinions. They don’t really have a f***in clue.

  75. What a great post. I am thinking about doing business with Infusionsoft and I have heard great things about them. Frank Kern and all of the bigger information marketers use the system. I also use Aweber and its great although they clipped a list belonging to an affiliate friend of mine. Other than that, no bad experiences.

    Thanks for the post Shoes


  76. Thank you so much for this very information rich post on email providers. I actually use Aweber, with so far, no problem, and hope it continues. It is a real eye opener to read of these larger companies just blowing off the issue to ‘systems’. The fact is that when people talk and relate stories, their business can suffer badly. the best thing anyone can do is to offer a sincere apology and actively look to resolve the problem. In addition, learn from it to make their systems better etc.

  77. From the consumer standpoint I can add to it, that those hyper aggressive in your face sales tactics Infusionsoft uses backfire. I for myself decided to never order from an infusionsoft merchant again. I got pissed of just to much.

  78. I like the infusion soft guys comments, oh well that was back then, well we are in the middle of an unrelated issues and still can not get it fixed. FEB-March 2012

    MOVING ON, do not use infusuionsosft

  79. Honestly the system is great, don’t get me wrong, but the people in charge of customer support are a bunch of pricks. Ya communication problem is a huge understatement, they have 0 people tolerance for anyone who have problems using their system lol.

  80. You’ve got a great blog here! would you like to create some invite posts on my site?

  81. Wow, I spent a couple of hours working through this anger last night after a prospective client drew my attention to the rant. Like everything in life, there are always two sides to a story.

    I’ll start by saying….shame on you. Everything I love about Americans is so not represented here (other than the balanced view points)

    One thing I do know is, when some one has this amount of time to place anger in a public domain, there is usually something dark behind it all.

    I have been with Infusionsoft for almost 12 months now and the have transformed my business and so many of my clients here in New Zealand.

    I have personally met so many of their team and their senior execs and have only the highest regard for them.

    In the end, we are all human. Time to build a bridge and move over it Mr Shoemaker. Life is too short for this amount of anger..

  82. Based on this post, I think I’ll give Infusionsoft a try. Bigger companies than InfusionSoft have been outed for bad customer service, and I’m sure InfusionSoft will be stronger now for it, now that a year has gone by. I’ll give ’em a shot. 🙂

  83. I have been using Infusionsoft for years. overall it is a great system and there is nothing as good on the market. There will always be hitches, as with any system. But overall it produces results very quickly and you do not have to develop your own system at a cost of $1M+ . Julian

  84. Wow. I will NEVER set up my business with INFUSIONSOFT as a result of reading this article. Thanks for the heads up.

  85. Even before reading all the responses here I felt like you handled the situation pretty poorly and gave 1 side of a very 2 sided story.

    I guess its good for your blog to paint it a certain way and essentially crucify Infusion, they did make mistakes. But at any point did you ever consider how much more it could potentially cost you and your company if some other Infusion user had an affiliate out there blasting spam and trashing the email deliverability for everyone? How much more pissed would you be if that cost your business money because Infusion didnt shut that other user down IMMEDIATELY?

    Stuff like this is no joke, and it never would’ve happened to begin with if you had been keeping better tabs on who your affiliates are and what they’re up to. If your friend borrows your car and goes flying down the highway do you get pissed at the cop who arrested him and impounded your car? No, you get pissed at your friend and you think twice before handing him the keys again.

    If I were you I would send a bill for your losses to whatever affiliate went spam happy and got you shut down.

  86. Thanks for the headsup.

    I was going to consider infusionsoft as my main crm but I sympathize with your issue and can only imagine what 30,000 mistake feels like.

    Personally I would have gone mad (your were very reserved compared to my personality)..

    Thanks, now onto the neverending search for my perfect crm platform..

  87. I just saw that IS is charging $2000 in addition to their monthly charge and went looking for another alternative and came across has anybody used this company seems to offer ALOT more than IS does. 30 Day Trial just to see how it works, sounds like they listened to stories like this!

  88. Your affiliate got your server shut down, the more responsible thing would be to get another server and have a kill switch for ‘bad’ affiliates. That is not anyone responsibility outside your immediate organization, it’s yours.

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