When I first met Google engineer Matt Cutts a long time ago it was at SES NYC he was sitting with 2 of the most notorious blackhats there are, daveN and ChrisR. Anyway I walked up and introduced myself but barely got out a Jeremy when Matt said “ohh shoemoney please sit and join us”.
I grabbed a seat and sat down and Matt looks over at me and asks “so what is working for you in the blackhat area”. I was completely shocked lol I didnt know what to say… Anyway all of us talked about stuff (that I will never talk publicly about of course) and I started to realize at that point this whole white hat blackhat whatever bullcrap is all just ridicules. The real deal is that the top notch “blackhats” really get it.
My father in law told me one time – “There are areas defined as wrong and areas that are defined as right. In the middle of those 2 areas there is a whole lot of people making a whole lot of money”. He was and still is totally right.
Honestly how hard is Whitehat SEO ? Its fricking cake is what it is. Its sad that companies actually pay people for whitehat seo advice but whatever. I guess they need something to blow the budget on.
Oilman and the Webguerrilla put it best a few weeks ago in saying that you don’t really know where the line between good and evil is until you have crossed it. I agree with that 100%.
In fact I would go out on a limb to say that I do not know any webmaster making over 7 figures a year that has not dabbled in the “dark arts”.
I guess what I am saying is if you are starting out with seo dont be afraid to experiment and test and dont listen to all these idiots who thing that you just build a great site and do the 10 step seo news letter program and everything will work out….. cause it wont take the bull by the horns and dont be afraid to test.
On the otherhand dont be a retard and wonder why your sites are banned that you were hiding text or cloaking for… or atleast chalk it up to a learning experience of what works and what does not.
32 thoughts on “Seo – Sometimes You Have To Be Evil To Be Good”
In the middle of those 2 areas there is a whole lot of people making a whole lot of money…
Haha, that is so right…
You make a good point… and it’s kind of funny that you say this because I have listed to a few of your shows and I notice how you ask people…
“So…have you ever dabled in the any of the black arts?”
quoting a friend: “i have all the morals i can afford”
i have been online making money for years. i can only say that the more honest you are, the higher your moral standards and the higher you set the bar for truth and honesty… the more you place yourself at a disadvantage because you are always competing against those who just don’t care… and they are often the strongest competitors.
its been said that Crescent Publishing made close well over 500,000,000.00 with their scams in the early days of online porn. the penalties were pretty minor.
there is always going to be a choice in everything you do in business where you have to decide what is right and wrong and where the line is. those who claim there isn’t or claim to be some shining beacon of morality and truth are usually the ones making the least money.
If you are having troubles with your conscience, just redefine the lines like people from CCBill.com did on forums and start using benign and forgivable terminology like “over marketing” instead of “f*cking people over by misrepresenting what you are selling”
“Click here for free ringtones”
is that like how you completely steal content on your trafficbrain.com site from seomoz and others… wow your a moral one
You BlackHat Hackers Are THE SCUM That is poulting the internet
HAHAHAHA….loving the photoshop!
Dude… that picture is even funnier than the Matt Cutt’s dress up page.
In the past I did mainly white hat stuff, the stuff people recommend at some retarded forums like the Google AdSense forum at WebmasterWorld. But once I started earning a bit more than average I started exploring some other ways.
White or blackhat, it doesn’t really matter as long as it’s still legal. I bet many of the white hat folks wouldn’t mind doing some darker stuff if it would gain them an additional $10,000 a month.
Where is mini-me
SM, your webgorilla(sp sorry) link does not work. you have to edit the url and then it works.
There are some grey areas that I started exploring – CAREFULLY. And I have to agree, I actually make more adsense money from referrals now than ad units. People always dismiss referalls out of hand, but used effectively, getting $1.00 or $2.00 per visit is a whole lot better than getting $.05 or $.50 a click.
Good read, thank you! Nice pic.
Dude, where can I buy the poster sized version of that pic? It’s awesome!
Are you Boy-cotting Digg.com? I don’t see the Icon on your blog. (only Reddit). anyway. I dugg you. Seo_Sometimes_You_Have_To_Be_Evil_To_Be_Good
Master, how can I learn the dark side of the SEO?
Now that’s a really interesting post that i can agree 100% with 🙂
awesome pic! 😀
I totally agree, but like others have asked. Where do you start with blackhat?
[…] I was reading the Shoe Money blog, and was reading their post Sometimes you have to be Evil To Be Good”. And they’re right. To win sometimes, you have to break the rules. You have to be ruthless and unethical. Nice guys do finish last. […]
Great stuff- I’m always wary when whitehat SEO experts tell you to just focus on growing organically.. if only it was that easy.
I wrote a blog entry called “Join the Dark Side of SEO” after reading this.
I like the piccy.. nicely done (except it looks like little you is gagging)..
Anyhoo – you wanted to be criticized, so here:
Where you posted ‘whatever bullcrap is all just ridicules. The real’ – change the ridicules for ‘rediculous’
PS I like the two areas analogy – very true, and I agree you have to dabble in so called ‘blackhat’ practices to augment your understanding of SEO. The only way to learn is to ask those who know, and test, test, test (did I mention test).. it just takes a while sometimes, and few people have the patience 🙂
Great post Shoe, keep on posting on this blog. Don’t ever give up, I like reading it 😛
If you’re doing AdSense, blackhat / whitehat really makes no difference. If you’re running a business selling stuff, I have 2 reasons to stick to white.
1) You don’t have to wonder if you’ll cross that line and disappear overnight, which allows for sleep.
2) Slow, steady growth is the only way to maintain profitability in any sort of a retail environment. Growing too fast means you end up purchasing too much and losing money due to the inefficiencies that you may not have noticed when you were a smaller operation.
Yes, I speak from experience on the second point.
I like your new layout, but the ability to comment on other peoples comments is gone now (ie nested comments/blocks) ?
It was good to be able to keep posts in context.. 🙂
Thats depend on our sitution our needness but its really help me to strong my Aims. thanks for nice advice.
That dr evil image is great. I was thinking the same thing about webmasters making lots of money all doing some BH even if they don’t talk about it.
[…] This is not an endorsement to use this technique it is more like a proof of concept! Also consider if there’s legal issues by doing this. But it’s all up to you – as shoemoney recently said: “Sometimes You Have To Be Evil To Be Good” though I’m not sure that he’d use this technique. […]
that is SOOOO right.
In the middle of the 2 areas in seo is gray hat right? just a thought..
Just wanted to say thanks for sharing such useful information. I’ll pass it on to the readers of my blog 🙂 Web SEO Expert.
i have visited this blog a couple of times now and i have to say that i find it quite great actually. keep it up! 😉
Great post Jeremy. I agree completely “in the middle of those two there are people making a lot of money”, spot on to your father!
Awesome picture!! Really Clever 😀
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