I seem to get this question about once a week:
How come you don’t go to SEO events anymore? SMX, SES, or Pubcon? Do you think its worth it for me to go?
That’s a really hard question for me to answer… But I will give it a go.
First and foremost I go to these events to:
Learn new stuff.
Network with other smart people doing stuff I can learn from.
I have paid tens of thousands for dollars for my staff and I to attend many SEO events and it was worth every penny. But not so much anymore (for me).
IMO:
- Most of the quality speakers are long gone doing there own stuff.
- Most of the quality attendees who have real experience doing stuff no longer attend.
When I first came into the industry I was befriended by a lot of people. I helped them and they helped me.
It seems as though now the SEO industry is a cess pool of negativity eating away at each other. If you look at the industries leading news site every day you see what I am talking about.
Today the top stories are:
http://sphinn.com/story/151854/ – A story about how all the SEO conferences should be held responsible for taking money from companies that rip users off.
http://sphinn.com/story/151848/ – A story ripping on Rand Fishkin’s interesting scientific analysis calling him a quack.
Its just sad what it has become and I would rather attend events where I can learn, network and help people.
Hopefully that makes sense. This is just my reasoning.
About the author...
Jeremy Schoemaker – who has written 2416 posts on ShoeMoney.com.
Hi I am Jeremy Schoemaker and ShoeMoney.com is my blog. 99% of the post here are done by me but you will see others occasionally make guest posts. This blog is fun to write but for my day job I run several online companies.
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What a loss for those of us who embrace SEO as a vital part of Marketing and Communications. You’ve got a unique perspective on the industry that is honest, broad, and ahead of the curve. Where would digital marketing be without people like you? Come back!
I totally agree with Jeremy’s opinion of the major SEO conferences. I got a lot of information when I attended them and got to meet some really smart and talented people.
I am NOT saying they are not worth attending for people newish to the Internet (SEO/SEM) or perhaps even those having a few years of experience. There just comes a point in time when you’ve heard and seen all you need.
As such, “unconferences” like Elite Retreat and Think Tank have drawn in the bigger guns. The guys you’ll find attending these events still have a daily desire to learn, but they want/need to learn from other experienced, successful people like themselves and share what they know, as well.
I am not that excited anymore about participating in that SEO conference I have been looking forward for months. That said, I will go (because I am still pretty new), and will hope for the elite conferences as I grow!
Ok what conferences do YOU recommend? besides Affiliate Summit which I’ll see you there
I’ve been attending more affiliate/IM events lately. As you noticed I am pretty open about what events I attend so stay tuned
So do you ever speak at smaller groups? Would you be open to speaking at our Chicago Affiliate Meetup? We are 300+ strong and growing, and have our own mastermind / think tank subgroups. Some very bright, independent people here! (Blue jeans and beer mandatory)
http://www.meetup.com/The-Chicago-Affiliate-Marketing-Meetup-Group/
Sure.
People over analyze SEO sooooo much. There’s no magic bullets or secrets.
For SEO, the biggest secret is no secret. But Analysis is necessary. We do SEO for who? SEs. SEs sevice who? Searchers. Searchers are a group of people. And different person has different preference.
Wow. Brutally honest. What was the last SEO event you attended? How long ago?
last one I went to…. where I actually went to the conference was SES San Jose 2008. I have since been in town when events have taken place but I just don’t go to the conference. Usually there are some smaller get togethers like DK’s events that are much better for networking.
All I can say is that two weeks ago Shoe got me to Frank Kerns List Control event. It blew my socks off so hard, I am still trying to find them. Last night I was at a mini event (dinner) Nathaniel Broughton put together in La Jolla. I learned so much over dinner that it was amazing.
My (dk) thinktank is closed to the public, but Chris and David’s Blueglass Search and Social should be very fresh in terms of attendees and ideas. http://www.shoemoney.com/2010/06/12/blueglass-social-media-search-conference-los-angeles-july-19-20/
Never been to one.
Sounds like the same perception that many people have about the advertising industry. It makes sense, as many ad agencies have expanded their services to include SEO. You get a different type of person involved in SEO now.
I read an artice from your link about the SEOmoz post.
I didn’t really find it negative. I think if they are going to publish info and try to pass it off as scientific they should ensure their approach really is scientific.
And the author is quite accurate when they say “When you hire an SEO consultant, what you are really paying for is domain experience in the not-failing-at-web-design field.”
Maybe a more accurate quote would “When you hire an SEO consultant, what you are really paying for is domain experience in the not-failing-at-traffic-generation field.”
iBroker
Valid points and it seems a lot of people are moving away from SEO events. At least you’re being honest.
I used to go to the conferences too. My first few conferences put me in touch with some awesome people who were doing really cool things. I built my network, joined mastermind groups, and started partnering up with these people. It gave me a huge opportunity to learn. I don’t think I need the conferences anymore. I kind of agree with your thinking – the top talent is no longer there.
Ouch.
Just out of curiosity, what would it take to get you to attend an SEO event? What speakers, topics etc. would make you want to go to an SEO event?
Great question. I was thinking the same thing.
“Its just sad what it has become and I would rather attend events where I can learn, network and help people.”
Trust me. We would welcome the opp to network with you, and most of us wouldn’t turn down your help. At least that’s how I feel.
Back in the old days, people were still brutal to each other. If anything, I think people are a bit more civil now than they used to because being present and visible in social media (which is necessary component of our online life) makes people more accountable for their words and actions.
I attend conferences much more for the networking than the knowledge…having met and briefly chatted with people like yourself in the past makes the conference experience worthwhile.
SEO Salesmen…. Just pull out your teeth whitener, starch your shirts, and put on your best pair of shiny shoes. Right? I’m with you. I hate those conferences. What’s the point?
First the trailblazers, then the “me too’s.” I can see why these are no longer valuable for someone like you.
To each his own. I still enjoy conferences and find them to be productive, mostly for networking purposes.
Agree. SEO is bullshit.
I still have a lot to learn when it comes to SEO, but like others have pointed out, it’s often hard to separate the good from the bad. Because of this, I’ve just been reading a lot of books and trying various SEO techniques on my own to see what works.
Not surprised to see your post. Anyone who’s been following you for some time, would expect this type of response.
Last one I went to most of the speakers were companies displaying on the conference floor. They had an agenda. I never went back.
I thought about the negativity, and wasn’t sure, so I decided to check the few SEO-related headlines in my reader… Skipping through the first 4 folders, Here’s what I found…
The Hypocrisy is Truly Amazing (SEO Blackhat)
How To Price (SEO Book)
Making Money With Fortitude (SEOChat)
URL Rewrite Smack-Down: .htaccess vs. 404 Handler (SEOMoz)
So one negative headline. Still don’t think things are negative overall, but that’s just my take on things.
I think the SEO industry has really taken a nose dive. Could use an image makeover. IMO opinion, the reputation is well deserved.
I think that the reputation is not deserved, and people should be VERY worried about their SEO strategies. Although I’m sure those events are more of a dog and pony show, I wouldn’t attend. Sounds like a rich dad poor dad seminar.
There are no new SEO developments. Its the same shit as 5 years ago. Title tags, keywords, links.
I feel like I’m being hustled when I go to those conferences. Miles and miles of tables and people who want to sell to you. I understand that this is part of the conference experience, but as a business owner, I am more interested in making direct contact with knowledgeable people within the industry. I am there for the information. I think once you reach a certain level, you naturally begin to expand your thinking. Collaboration, being entrepreneurial, and forging new ground begins to take a priority. The types of conferences you are attracted to begins to change. As you change, your tastes and affiliations change too. Yanik Silver’s events or the Think Tank events would be a natural choice. (Words of wisdom from the older side of your community! LOL!)
Umm.. Your headline yesterday said “Nipples.”
So what is your answer for the last question? You answered the first portion, why you don’t go. But for a new person, is there one conference on SEO you could recommend? I am paying for it myself, and want to be sure to get the most out of it.
A loss for the SEO community.
I actually still like going to them as I tend to find some interesting start-ups trying to get the word out. I can’t give up on them yet!
That’s sad that SEO events have turned into this. I think I would benefit from SEO events because I have no real experience.
So in a sense you are saying all the secrets are learned on what is needed to do to rank the best. So only crappy people go to the events. Shoe does not want to be around crappy people.
I guess what has happened is the same thing that happens in every industry as it becomes more and more competitive; competition has brought in more people who tend to be in it for themselves and want to keep things secret. I do wish there were a way to bring back the days when everyone on the net collaborated and gave away quality products for free in the interest of helping everyone. Personally, I am spending a good chunk of change buying tools and hoping I am getting good advice.
Please do let us know if you think there will be a conference that is worth attending and is not a shill for some internet marketer to sell old tired stuff wrapped in a new package.
Well stated. I feel the same way. The fact that you’re following Shoemoney is probably a good indicator that you’re looking in the right places. But then again, I’m biased.
There are better ways to spend your money, that’s for sure. I don’t blame you.
Having never been to one I always wondered why people had felt the need to attend to being with. I get the whole networking idea but dang I can network with tons of people at other events that offer more than just a one trick pony.
I just laugh at conferences and those that create “blogs”. I have networked with a handful of people that make well over 30k a month and no one would even know who they are.
I attended a conference once and found no value whatsoever. I just felt harassed by 120 companies. There are def better ways to spend the coin.
But SEO is still evolving. If you truly want to help others who are seeking help, I think those events would really benefit from your presence.
Think of how SEO has evolved since your last SEO conference in 2008. User signals have become increasingly important, PR importance is still declining, and link context has become more important. The things that happen each month (think Oct 09 when Google and Microsoft signed deals to access Tweets) become links in a much bigger chain in the ever evolving world of digital. And now with Google’s caffeine rollout complete, some of the principals you’ve been touting since day one are even MORE relevant and important.
The SEO conferences need people with your perspective and experience. I hope that you would reconsider at some point, even in the midst of dismal headlines and changing attendees. After all, we all had to start somewhere.
I have to agree with your comment. If you’ve been following this blog for the past year, you know that Jeremy talks about a lot of things, including SEO, IT, branding, content, building community, social media, customer service, sales, marketing, being an entrepreneur, affiliate stuff, and breaking news. He introduces new businesses and shares his tests. He pretty much provides online tutorials. Hell, he even talks about nipples. It’s more than just SEO, but he talks about that too. Too bad for the SEO conferences!
I think your strategy of paying for staff to go and learn the tools and trick to stay updated and then implement it is the way to go if you can afford it. It’s quite possible to go from seminar to seminar learning awesome stuff but never having time to apply any of it…
Cool Story Bro!
I agree in part.
A guy’s entitled to his own opinion, right?
Its true if u guyz keep on going there than there is no use bcoz u already have amazing knowledge which is more than enough. Instead of spending much try to use that for any other good cause.
When was the last time you attended SEO conference? It’s sad to know what SEO industry lost. But I am still hopeful that there will be quality speakers soon that might help SEO industry to be a better field.
Fair enough, but now where would one go to learn?
We should go there then, no?
Where do the ‘quality few’ hang out these days?
Like anything, there really comes a point where it’s overkill.
Most everything you can learn online anyway or with a quick email to the individuals.
The networking part is the real benefit but that too has been bridged by a quick email or phone call.
It’s a lot of the same information being told over and over again by different people and in different context.
Thank for your inputs , I will visit your site more often, you have good articles.
I have the same feeling too. I think nowadays lots of people starting to make use of SEO conference just for the purpose of making money. It’s just like the PC fair in my local area. In the beginning it was meant for an event that computer lovers and fans can gather for activities. Now it ‘s just a place to sell outdated PC and faulty parts.
The best speakers are already focusing their talents on new Internet frontiers these days. I completely agree with this post, Shoe. You don’t get fresh information during SEO conferences anymore just like the old times.
Awww. That’s makes me sad, Jeremy. I would just like you to know that I would rather attend a conference headed by you rather than one initiated by scammers, spammers and web-based snake-oil salesmen.
Thanks for the post, Jeremy. These so-called “conferences” have become so oversold over time that they simply do not offer great trains of thought anymore. I hope you start a new generation of SEO-related activities, Shoe!
“When you hire an SEO consultant, what you are really paying for is domain experience in the not-failing-at-traffic-generation field.” This is so true.
Innocent web business people can’t know the difference b/t true SEO experts and scammers. THat said, I get the point of your article. it’s all about NETWORKING.
Looks like SEO huddles won’t be that awesome anymore.
Search engine optimization is just undergoing a phase where it isn’t as interesting as it once was – rather, been there done that. The basics haven’t changed. As it continues to merge with other forms of digital marketing, it will announce its return with a boom in terms of web marketing initiatives and popularity among business-minded Internet aficionados.
Way to go, Shoe! This may be a bit brutal but I think that this honest post hits the spot perfectly.
OMG. Sux for SES and the rest, IMHO.
So sad to hear that one of my web heroes has decided to lay off the SEO conferences.
It’s never going to be the same without you, Jeremy. The SEO community has certainly lost a conference gem.
The great Shoe has spoken.
You can do whatever you want at this point. I echo the sentiments of others… their loss more than yours.
Lay off SEO Event? What a pity.
Kill Google, lets not give importance to SEO …Build traffic the viral way
I can definitely understand your perspective and actually agree with a lot of it. I’ve never been a huge fan of conferences though I do enjoy SMX since you can actually interact with some smart people there – both attendees and panelists.
The negativity in the SEO industry certainly exists and there are fewer willing to share real information out in the open. As SEO has gained in popularity the number of good SEO outlets seems to have shrunk. The good SEO tires of explaining away the SEO scams and misinformation.
Perhaps that makes them jaded and negative? I don’t know. It’s a shame because it’s a fascinating industry that continues to evolve and change. Staying on top of that change rarely happens by attending conferences and instead is done by doing SEO.
You have a good reason.
SEO has kept me up so many nights…
Well I haven’t attended any SEO conferences lately but here is my beef with it:
A lot of events, and mean A LOT! have turned into a business itself, it’s a physical opt-in list, what I mean is that it turns into a pitch fest, it’s almost like a group oh hienas, got together with the lions and some leopards and say -Why fight for food, Lets just get all this dumb cattle in one place and we all get our share-
So naturally you don’t get the real deal until you get that speaker’s materials.
It may be good marketing but it’s bad for people
Not just SEO conferences of course, RE, Options, Speaking events etc.
If you find yourself in one of these events, buy with your head not your emotions
David Carreno
the problem with SEO is that its application is the negation of the search engines accuracy, SEO is like the guerrilla of the search engines, SEO has to find a new camouflage every time, every google update and after every matt cutts meeting with the quality team.
You are right. the SEO is over hyped now a days. But the truth is most of the successful websites are not following those SEO rules, but still they are making descent traffic and revenue.
I also attended a couple of SEO meetings, but most of the topics are just repeating, and they are just teaching us new things with old tricks.
SEO doesn’t have any secrets. Go learn the basics and then build links and build pages (Good Pages). That’s it!
I’ll tell you what the problem with them these days is..no headline stars. We need Jason Calacanis to make a keynote again so everyone can go ape shit. Those were the good old days. The days when conferences in the SEO industry mattered.
Makes complete sense. If there is nobody to learn from anymore, it’s not worth the time and effort. If you just want to party…well, you don’t have to go to the conference for that.
Personally, I think SEO is waste of time – care for readers and friends always works in online world..
SEO has been explained on the surface by 1000s of writers and speakers for years. To get actual technical information that you can use right now is very rare. The Link Wheels were the only real life information I have seen lately that I could use right away.
Yep, make complete sense. But is there anywhere people can network anymore. Even the top IM forums, WF & DP, most of those people just whine about not making money, or they are trying to sell you something that is just recycled junk.
Good Post Jeremy!
great post..
very good info
very good info…
i enjoyed reading..
I think one of the reasons is, there a lot of WEBINARS on the market. people choose to stay at home because they can also learn from the internet.
Mike here from bluemountainchaletrental.ca
Hi Jeremy,
Well as for me I have not gone to any SEO forums. But the thing that really prevents me from coming is the fact that none of them actually guarantees that the tips they will give will actually produce something beneficial. I mean, how can we make sure they are valid unless we do some statistical analysis right? Just my two cents.
Hey Shoe,
But if you don’t attend these events, like the Kern dealio I never would have had the opportunity to hang out with and get drunk with a bald dude that painted his toenails black and kept dropping his drinks on my foot. “You know who I am talking about” Gimme a shout next time you are in SD and we can do it again. Gimme a shout and I will show you around the seedy underbelly of San Diego!
Crap I should have edited my first post before hitting the send button. Sorry for the bad grammar, I must still be drunk!
When you go to one SEO event – you will never need to go to another. They all preach the same, sorry, but you will find everything you need to know free on the Internet. Don’t burn your money!
Makes sense. It’s never cool when people start ripping on each other. It seems the conferences have taken a turn for the worst. It’s a good thing you have your own where you can decide who comes and what you talk about!