Last week when I had a open question post there were several asking my thoughts on this health care bill being voted on this afternoon.
I have a lot of mixed feelings… and being my wife is an anesthesiologist some interesting viewpoints from her also.
The one constant I am pretty sure about is that nobody knows what is going to happen… The whole huge rush to get this thing passed right away (much like that stimulas crap) is what scares me a bit.
Like I said I have a lot of mixed feelings on this. As much as I would love to have free health care for everyone in America (which we actually have in Lincoln Nebraska through PRIVATE FUNDED companies) I just have never heard one good argument on how its not going to completely bankrupt our country.
But history will tell the tale. I am willing to concede the possibility that Obama and the rest of the democratic leadership might actually know what they are doing and unlike every other government run program (medicare, social security) this one will actually work.
What do you think?
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Jeremy Schoemaker – who has written 2415 posts on ShoeMoney.com.
Hi I am Jeremy Schoemaker and ShoeMoney.com is my blog. 99% of the post here are done by me but you will see others occasionally make guest posts. This blog is fun to write but for my day job I run several online companies.
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{ 174 comments… read them below or add one }
I am really proud of our President and Democratic leaders for getting done what many others have failed at.
Health care should be a right for every American and it should be free.
“Health care should be a right for every American and it should be free.”
Really?
Please, someone tell me where the constitution give the Congress this kind of power. Can you show me where our forefathers thought the idea of the state taking over medical care for an entire nation would be a good idea?
#cosign when in doubt refer to the 10th amendment
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
Sorry but federal health care is unconstitutional. Not that that ever stopped a congress from passing a bill.
Folks, half of our health care budget right now goes straight to Medicaid and Medicare. So if you’re complaining about too much government intervention, you’d better get rid of those programs.
yea let’s get rid of those programs too and start from scratch. Health care should not be a civil right nor a civil requirement
You retard!
I just surfed in here from some a commercial break and I got to upset to just ignore this typical american bs.
You understand that I’m from Europe (Sweden in fact) and it’s so strange to see arguments like yours: “Please, someone tell me where the constitution give the Congress this kind of power. Can you show me where our forefathers thought the idea of the state taking over medical care for an entire nation would be a good idea?”
What the F do your forefathers have to do with it? Sweden have changed the constitution like 5 times in the 19th century, it’s no problem to modernise your country.
And how can you be so heartless to not give ppl help and not consider it a right?
What would the oppsite be, to just give a finger to all who needs help?
I don’t really give a rip if you are from Sweden. I’m an American, we’re talking about American policies and we have something called a Constitution that just got shredded. So, I don’t give a F what you think!
To Weight Loss Diet Plans: Well, all countries have a constitution, Sweden too. Otherwise it wouldn’t be a country. I just want to say that it’s ok to change it. If Sweden didn’t change the constitution since the late 18th century, the king Gustav III who ruled in that time, would have adopted dictator rules.
Maybe Sweden’s history of having a king have made Sweden to have more tolerance against changes just because we didn’t want to have one person ruling the country. And therefore we have a history of changes to the constitution.
My question to you is why not change the constitution? It was written in the late 18th century god dammit!
To emphasis: I have the same question to you. If there are people that are getting hurt in your country, why not help them? Because of some old documents?
To both of you: It’s hard to understand your conservatism to your history. You must realise that time changes and so do countries and people. I think, and many other swedes that have some insight to american politics, that the politics in USA is very inhuman. There is no room for humans and there conditions as for principles that don’t help anyone.
This whole ‘our constitution is getting shredded’, our forefathers didn’t envision health care argument is complete garbage. Why?
1. Our forefathers owned slaves.
2. Many of the decisions in the past 50 years have violated the constitution. The president doesn’t have the right to declare war, only congress does – so did Bush violate the constitution?
3. The forefathers never envisaged a state where there would be an internet, pedophiles, copyright protection, the list goes on. Does that mean that all the laws that relate to the same are unconstitutional?
4. The forefathers owned hemp farms. Does that mean marijuana should be constitutionally legal?
Get with the times. Or should I say – ahoy hoy there English. That’s a fine barn, but tis aint no constitutional amendment!
Weight Loss Diet Plans says:
“I don’t really give a rip if you are from Sweden. I’m an American, we’re talking about American policies… So, I don’t give a F what you think!
That attitude is a huge part of the problem.
(sorry about the cursed language, and the swedish constitution have been changed about 5-7 times in the 19th and the 20th century, last time in the 1970s)
The American constitution gets changed quite often. It protects our freedoms. Buying health “insurance” is a fine choice but it is not right for everyone. This law forces everyone to buy “health insurance”.
To Peter K: Hello there, if you think you are buying a lot of health insurance, think again. The “nordic countries” (in Europe) pays most taxes of all countries in the world!
However, still we are among the riches countries. And that is even though Norway, Finland and Denmark was occupied and evolved in the old WWII war.
If you see examples of heavy taxed countries and the good fortune of them. Can’t you consider that fact that it is possible to have them both?
Section 8 – Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and ==> provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States<==; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Where does it say in the Constitution that there should be free education for children who cannot afford private schools? Should we abolish public schools?
First of all it is definitely going to be FREE for anyone. OK, maybe for dead-beats and illegals with no money. Other than that, WE will all be paying for this for a LONG, LONG time.
Oops, I meant DEFINITELY NOT! LOL
It’s amazing how people think this bill means free healthcare – IT IS NOT FREE (unless you’re in poverty, then it’s free, which it already was/is anyway). You have to buy insurance, you don’t get it for free! This is not universal healthcare, this is mandated healthcare.
So should guns be free to since that too is a right that every American has?
I’m looking forward to my free gun, and the ammunition should be paid for by all those that are getting the free health care… Because they are they only ones that will be able to afford it…
Its going to be a huge mess
* This bill doesn’t address the problem: rising costs
* If you like your current insurance, you CAN’T keep it. It’ll be dead in a few short years. This bill is single payer through the back door.
* Tough break for the elderly. Medicare is already broke and $500B in reductions works how?
I just wondered who the 5% or 15 million people are that will not be covered when this bill takes effect in 2014?
I’m watching the debate live right now. It’s interesting to hear what everyone says. I’m scared about how fast this is pushing through too. Being a small business owner, I’m fairly hopeful that it doesn’t affect me too much.
WTF. What exactly did we buy here anyway? Does anybody even really know? This has been like being at a used car lot for 12 months and being handed a bill for a car I didn’t even get to look at.
thats why you have elected officials, that should be competent enough to read, digest and spit out an explanation to the bills put in front of them, 18 months ago.
Jenny,
I don’t think anyone disagrees with the ideal that healthcare should be a right and free for every American. The question is whether the bill being proposed actually achieves that.
Jeremy,
I agree that one of the scariest things about this bill is the speed with which it has been pushed through. I can’t believe that such a massively complex problem as health care has been “solved” in a little over a year.
I have a lot of respect for Obama and the Democratic leaders for what they are trying to do. I also know that many of the broken government programs today started out with equally good intentions. What scares me the most is that healthcare is being so tightly tied to the government. What happens in five or ten years time under different leadership. Should we be dependent upon a program run by a government that changes its mind and direction twice a decade?
I’m not sure why people think this has been pushed through so fast. One year does not equal fast, and it’s just a first step, not a sweeping reform. For pete’s sake, we’re the only First World country that withholds health care from millions of citizens – 40 million at last count, and that number goes up by at least a million each year. We’ve got to do SOMETHING; inactivity is surely worse than what’s on the table right now!
“We need to do SOMETHING” are you serious? So you are willing to make a quick decision ( a year is just that) all to do SOMETHING! That is stupid! We need not do anything unless it it the absolute correct thing! In the 60′s people thought that the earth was cooling… People were ready to pour black dust on the polar caps in an effort to heat up the earth. Then in the past few years people were and still are screaming that the earth is heating up. Now people are ready to find ways to lower the temperatures of the earth, when just this year we had the coldest Florida winter in history. Sometimes things need to be measured in thousands of years to see what is really going on… In the same way we need to measure (debate/talk about) the real issues with healthcare and how we can fix it without rushing into some immediate do SOMETHING state of mind.
Here is what we DON’T need to do: further expand the entitlement mentality of our country. You want the cream of the crop healthcare that we have in the USA? Pony up the money. Work hard to afford it. Take a job you may not like so much but that gives you health insurance as a benefit. There is plenty of BASIC healthcare out there and it is FREE If you can’t truly afford to care for yourself: homeless shelters, Planned Parenthood, Medicaid, Church-run clinics. This bill will propel our nation away from an enterpernurial mindset to an entitlement society. Healthcare is NOT a right, the goverment doesn’t exists to take care of your every need. You should need one thing: freedom to persue your dreams and the freedom to make something of yourself so you can take care of your family. People don’t better themselves if they are handed everything on a silver platter.
“You want the cream of the crop healthcare that we have in the USA? Pony up the money”
That mentality is part of the problem. That somehow people who get sick without insurance or with denied insurance claims deserve if because they didn’t work hard enough.
If you’ve had the good fortune to never get seriously sick while in college, working two part time job that pays $2 over minimum wage without benefits because it’s what’s available, and what works with your life, good for you. Personally, I’ve ended up with a $3k medical bill that crapped on my credit because I got some bad Mexican food and didn’t have insurance for the reason stated previously. I wasn’t loafing off of society, I wasn’t doing anything hazardous and I avoided going to the hospital until I couldn’t stand up on my own and couldn’t keep down water.
It took me forever to pay that off working 2 crappy jobs, and as soon as I was able to jump to a better one I did. But the fact that I struggled with it isn’t a reflection of being lazy, not working hard or wanting a better job, feeling entitled or anything else.
My biggest problem with the bill is that it keeps insurance companies in business in the first place. If you really want fewer people involved in healthcare, get rid of the insurance companies and set up some kind of system – private public, I don’t care – where people can go directly to hospitals and doctors without worrying about networks, and hospitals and doctors can see people who are sick without worrying that they’ll get paid.
Cutting out the middleman would definitely bring costs down, but until that happens, some regulation is better than nothing at all.
“I don’t think anyone disagrees with the ideal that healthcare should be a right and free for every American.”
There is a definite disagreement. We do not agree that you have the *right* to a person’s time, skill, and education. No one has the *right* to reap the rewards of a person’s hard work and sacrifice. No one is entitled to my work, not even if the progressives say you are.
Small business owners, imagine what the health insurance industry is facing:
* currently pull 2.5 to 4% profit margin
* forced to “insure” everyone via no pre existing conditions
* price fixed by the Feds
* your competitor can print its own money and set its own prices by law
Sad day for majority of Americans
Why is it bad to “force” insurers to insure people with pre-existing conditions? If you’ve tried to get insurance with a pre-existing condition (I have), you get turned down or you’re forced to pay twice as much as the next person. Making insurance companies cover anyone regardless of condition makes good business sense. Plus, it’s ethical.
its called assets and liabilitys. If your liabilitys are greater then your assets then your company will go down.
an insurance company will lose capital, go bankrupt and dissapear because they will be forced to cover every dying soul under the sun…then we are all screwed.
For those of you that are parents in here that has children and living paycheck to paycheck to put food on the table and clothes on their backs. Hows about the govt showing up on your door step forcing you to adopt 4 abandoned kids for you to provide on your current salary. – you will be homeless in 1 month.
Are you allowed to call up your favorite car insurance immediately after you’ve totaled your car in a wreck? No. If you were it wouldn’t be insurance by the very definition of the word.
My point is simply that this bill is less about covering the less privileged and more about killing private insurance so only the government remains.
As someone with a preexisting who’s been turned down by every insurance company there is…
I feel that people with preexisting conditions should have access, BUT they should pay more…
It may cost you more, but as long as its being offered, Im fine with that. I currently pay $400 per month for a CRAPPY plan, and was previously paying $600 per month…
A lot of people need to get their priorities in line. Too many people bitch about healthcare being expensive, and then they spend $2500 every month on a car lease, eating out and paying for your big screen.
Wow, you know people who are rich enough to spend 2500$ on trivial stuff? You must know rich people.
Where I worked I was making 9.60$ an hour (CAD$), which gave me a whooping 1350$ per month or so. After rent, food and utilities, half of it goes poof.
So I’d have 675$ to pay for those luxuries INCLUDING health insurance, and a car lease if I had any.
Thankfully, being in Canada, I pay between 300-500$ a year, deducted from my income tax return in April of every year – if I’m not on a private plan (and given my job had none, and that I was laid off because of recession – I never had a private plan).
This gives me: 69% of the cost of meds, 100% covered cost of doctor visits, or hospital visits, most routine tests (like radios) covered.
What’s not covered with this very basic plan: Eye health, dental care, non-routine tests, experimental stuff. And for sure, elective stuff.
What this means is that, even with low income, if I get a bad luck, a pneumonia, a bronchitis, a broken leg…well I’m not declaring bankrupcy. And don’t think I love going to doctors or the hospital, I go when I have to, even if its free.
Whoa there Stuart. I very much disagree that any form of government run health insurance is free.
Hehe. Apologies if you read what I wrote as implying it was free. I was trying to speak to the ideal of it being free and a right for every American. I don’t disagree with that ideal I just don’t see it as something either practical or possible any time soon.
Well, the fact of the matter is something needs to be done. Since getting something done is beyond my control, I am looking forward to seeing what this health care bill will do. It needs to be done. I’d guess about 98% of people that say its going to be a mess have no idea what the bill specifically does, as well as 98% of people who say it will work have no idea. I’d say, lets give it a try (because the current situation is clearly not working).
Couldn’t agree more. Most people are just regurgitating what Rush Limbaugh or the rest of the Republican contingent are saying. Of course, these people have never been without health insurance and so have no idea what millions of Americans (and that number is going up) have to deal with.
I have. Everyone pull out your disability and we will see who’s is the biggest.
Counting on the govt to do anything for you is a fool’s errand at best
http://unitedstatesofscamerica.blogspot.com/2010/03/distress.html
It is going to be a disaster.
Can anyone point to one example of anything the government does well? Does the post office run well? How about the DMV? No, maybe social security or medicare?
If this was such a great idea, why did they have to offer all sort of kickbacks and try to rush it through behind closed doors.
By the way, government health care isn’t free – they’re paying for it with our money.
So much for transparency. This is the worst administration in history.
The Military is one thing I think our government runs very well.
yes because the pentagon needs $600 hammers etc. trust me when I tell you the military as a business is a mess!
Yes, that is the only thing they do well. As a USMC veteran, I can attest to that first-hand.
Anything that in any way relates to commerce or even any type of public service, they fail miserably at. This, however, has a much greater significant impact on our lives than a long line at the DMV or poorly educated children in public schools.
Never mind the fact that this is completely unconstitutional.
How is it “unconstitutional” to provide for the most marginalized of our society? To allow access to basic health care for children? To give people freedom from worrying about bankruptcy if they go to the doctor?
The constitution is not there to ensure that citizens are compassionate. Its purpose is to prevent the government from taking away your right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. “Forcing” me to partake in your health care expense infringes on my right to the pursuit of happiness.
As a former Marine I have to disagree with you that the military is ran well.
Marines, soldiers, airmen and sailors are all trained well… But that doesn’t mean the military is ran well.
The military waste an unbelievable amount of money and resources… The military is the poster child for government waste. Don’t take my word for it, Google it…
In addition to the military, several law enforcement agencies are very effective, including the FBI and the Department of Justice.
Also we have the best highway system and national park system in the world.
Research agencies like the National Institutes of Health and DARPA do some amazing things — not to mention NASA. The CDC is also very effective.
As for government-run health care, TRICARE — which covers 9.5 million active-duty servicemen and women, military retirees, and their dependents — provides some of the best health care available.
Actually, USPS isn’t run by the government, it’s independent and required by regulation to provide a baseline of service.
The DMV is a state function, so I guess that flies right in the face of “States Rights”.
Shoe-
Unfortunately this will bankrupt our country. The spending that has occurred in the last few months of the Bush administration and the first year of the Obama administration have been mind boggling. Not only can we not afford this bill it will be a financial disaster. There are many people who think this is going to be “free” healthcare. Does everyone understand where the US Govt gets their money from? You and me. It’s called taxes. You and I will pay for this healthcare plan one way or the other.
Kelly
Unfortunately, I think you might have been misinformed. Yes, the American taxpayers will pay for this, but the money that we spend currently on people that are NOT insured, or underinsured, far exceeds what we will be paying if people had access to regular, preventative health care – rather than using the ER as a doctor’s office.
Didn’t your bankers already bankrupt your country? Wouldn’t it be better to give your taxes to healthcare instead of bailing out AIG?
Well, actually, NOT doing anything about health care costs is the only thing that’s guaranteed to bankrupt our country. We know that for certain.
I’m all for HCR. Of course the bill isn’t perfect, but I’m sure it will improve over time.
Not sure why there’s a feeling of it being pushed through by some of you here? We’ve been debating health care for the last year +, if you’ve been paying attention, there’s literally not much else to talk about!
Do tell us more about the Lincoln Nebraska health care, shoe! link?
It certainly feels like it’s being pushed through when they are using tatics such as passing the senate version because they know they couldn’t otherwise get enough votes, plus the deem and pass rule which was not designed for allowing you to pass legislation like this.
When you are dealing this much money at one time wouldn’t it be better to have a pretty close to perfect bill to start out with?
I guess time will tell but when Obama’s poll number are reaching all time lows because he is pushing this, don’t you think it should tell them something?
I just wish people would keep saying it will be free. It’s not free, it’s a mandate. Everyone will be required to “buy” health insurance, and Americans will also be taxed up the ying yang for this reform.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0319/Health-care-reform-bill-101-Who-must-buy-insurance
Ay yi yi. First, there is no fundamental American right to be uninsured (and therefore a burden on those of us who ARE insured), and so various arguments based on the Bill of Rights or the Constitution are invalid. Congress is actually in complete step with the Constitution in expanding health insurance coverage in any fashion that is politically and socially feasible. Health insurance is basicallyn economic good, which means that the only possible objection to health reform/health reform insurance is that mandating its purchase is not the same as “regulating” its purchase; a mandate is just a stronger form of regulation. An insurance mandate would be enforced through income tax laws, so even if a simple mandate were not a valid “regulation,” it still could fall easily within Congress’s power to tax or not tax income. For instance, anyone purchasing insurance could be given an income tax credit, and those not purchasing could be assessed an income tax penalty.
In addition, both bills provide “hardship” exemptions from the mandate for individuals and families for whom health insurance would be unaffordable, and exemptions for those with religious objections. It’s just a way to make access happen quicker; I agree that the whole “forced to pay for coverage”thing is not good, but it’s somewhat misleading how it’s worded. Hope that makes sense.
“Family Vacations are basically economic goods, which means that the only possible objection to Vacation reform/Vacation reform insurance is that mandating its purchase is not the same as “regulating” their purchase; a mandate is just a stronger form of regulation”.
How would you feel if the government forced you to buy a timeshare? Let’s further assume that you could not afford it and you would have to be penalized. Aren’t you glad the constitution is there to ensure the governments right to take your money?
Oops. I meant I wish people would “quit” saying it will be free….
I disagree that it is a RIGHT for all Americans to have health care. I choose not to have health care at this point in my freelance career. Having a CHOICE is what sets America apart from other countries. If this is my choice, why then should the government interfere and disenfranchise my right by telling a total stranger, “Oh, look, she has no health care and you should pay for it.” No different than my business failing and I come to you asking for a bailout: you’d think I was crazy, and you would be right.
There is a lot wrong with our current health care system, don’t get me wrong, but this is not the way to a solution. Considering how fast they are trying to pass this thing through, what else is being hidden from our eyes? Has any one legislator, any one Congressman, read this entire bill cover to cover and will admit to doing such on camera? I think not.
God forgive you come down with a major health problem like say a really nasty cervical cancer. What would you do then? You would be denied health insurance coverage because it is a pre-existing condition.
Lets talk about treatment costs, first the doctors would have to do surgery ($10,000) to remove everything they can find. Then you get chemotherapy. Lets say you need one of the expensive drugs that cost $3,000-$4,000 per dose and you need 5 doses. $10,000 + $15,000 = $25,000.
Since you chose not to have insurance, you would be what I consider self-insured and have over $25,000 sitting around that you can use to pay the costs. What you don’t??? Then you should have had insurance. One or the other is the RESPONSIBLE thing to do.
Based on a lot of the comments here, I guess the other responsible thing to do is let the cancer run its course and you either you survive or don’t.
You could say that you want the option to pay the bill over time, kinda like reverse insurance only now you are expecting the doctors, hospital and drug companies to take on your risk of surviving to pay the bill over the next 10 years. How is that fair to them?
Now, due to the surgery and ongoing chemotherapy you are considerably weaker and cannot work. In fact you have to move in with relatives. Maybe you get so far behind in your financial life you have to declare bankrupcy and stiff the doctors, hospital and drug companies who will now charge more to the rest of us to offset their loss.
Face it most people will chose to live rather than die. An unforseen medical catastophe can happen at any time. If you want to live then either you need to be rich enough to be self insured or you pay into some insurance system of some sort.
I completely agree with you, Jeremy; however, I’m much more sure of my position.
Jenny: I disagree with you that “Health care should be a right for every American and it should be free.” No one is entitled to the skills and time of any American citizen, no matter how flowery the language. I do agree (as do both parties in the debate) regarding many of the things that can be done to solve the cost problems and exclusions. Just not this massive expansion of government and redistribution of our paychecks.
By the time this bills is paid for will cost us $2.1 trillion. CBO numbers don’t include the special deals such as those in Louisiana and Nebraska. Passing something is needed. This ain’t it. I wonder how people are going feel when they actually find out you mean I have to pay now with no benefit for 4 years.
Why isn’t health care bankrupting European countries, but it would bankrupt America?
Try getting rid of big Pharmaceutical companies that are in for profit and watch how health costs drop.
There is no drug on the market that is not making money for a business, when they feel it will not be a good investment for the pocket book, they doi not put it on the shelf and allow people to think that there is no drug to help them.
We think Govt. has the control but it’s the other way around, Business control the Govt..
Seriously? It’s not bankrupting other countries? Maybe you should take a look around. People wait years for surgery in Canada and the UK because their systems are flooded and there isn’t enough money to go around. There are riots in Greece because the “free” government programs are broke.
We don’t wait years for surgery in the UK. There’s so much propaganda about our health system in the UK.
Here’s what it boils down to, we have slightly above average healthcare for 100% of the population.
The USA has very good healthcare for 70% of the population and zero healthcare for 30%.
We also don’t pay stupid amounts of tax, are a competitive economy that thrives on the motive for profit and is hardly an egalitarian paradise (we have more billionaires in london than any other city other than NYC and Moscow).
@Tom: Well said!
By the way, over 90% of the experimental treatments come from the top 5 hospitals in the US. Pretty much any major medical advancement in the last 50 years or so has come from the Pharma companies that you seem to think are evil because they work for profit.
And if you know anything about history – that time line shows that when World War 2 ended and Britain’s national health service started their socialized health care, they stopped pursuing new medical research since their was no incentive or funding.
I do not think for profit is evil at all. I think that it can and does hinder treatment for people who need it.
I guess because I think everyone should have the choice to have a healthy life and it should not be based on how much cash you have.
Health should not be dangles like a carrot on a stick by Insurance companies who make deceptions to deny people treatment. Some of these people are denied medical treatment after years of paying their premiums on time. The reason that some are denied is because of the label ” experimental”.
What you are saying is as long as there is no money involved new cures will not be found?
Maybe healthcare is not the only think this country need.
I do not know anyone who waited years to get to a Dr. in Ireland, London on Canada.
The USA has a infant mortality rate and death from after child birth complications that would surprise you.
If offering health care to all will stop science then maybe science should be called business men and not scientists.
Sorry for the typos. I agree when you say that free healthcare is hurting some countries. There is a reason for that. Immigration is the problem they are hurting. They are caring for people who have not paid into the system.
OK – So…
I have voted both Red & Blue in the past 10 years, not just for the major-big elections, but local elections as well. I consider myself an American, not a Dem or Republican. I am self employed, 45 years old, and have generally considered myself “well-off”. We can afford new cars and have cable TV, etc, etc.
Since we are self employed, we buy our own insurance. Health, Dental, Vision, and Life costs us more than $1600/month for us and our children, and we are healthy! I can’t even imagine how high it will be at 55 years old… as it goes up 10-20% every year already, and really only covers maintenance of our bodies. Premiums aside – we still pay many thousands of dollars every year out of pocket as well. All said… our healthcare system is ALL FUCKED UP and needs reform…
I just don’t think it needs to be mandated by our Gov’t, who has clearly proven thay are at the beckon call of lobbyists already.
Where is the FTC making every one of these elected leaders state their vote, and in the next breath, disclose what they receive in funding from the insurance and pharma companies?
I need to stop… this could go on and on.
I agree something has to be done but this bill does nothing to control costs.
I’m Canadian and we have a free health care system… it is not 100% perfect but it works… On top of that the country is not bankrupt. It can works but you need a solid plan to do …
Why do people with money all come to america to have surgeries though? Like the candian Danny Williams
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5ir-t6yTW0Fi0a81IMs_LBZ5Ot0uw
I heard about this story …. That doesn’t mean the free health care system sucks it means some doctors sucks… medical errors happen everywhere … He could go to another province …just saying…
Even thought he went to US … he might get a tax credit anyway …
To answer your question: we don’t have enough doctors in Canada … most of them leave to US because they can earn more in US …( we have a waiting list problem)
There is a salary cap too unless you open your own private clinic and resign from the public system…
It is not perfect but it works… at least everyone is covered (some people abuse the system and go check doctors for flu…)
going to the doctor for the flu is abusing the system? a waiting list problem? A doctor pay problem?
are you even listening to yourself?
“I just have never heard one good argument on how its not going to completely bankrupt our country.”
Wars have already bankrupt America. Wonder why there’s no money left to spend on healthcare?
Wars stimulate private companies and businesses. They could not profit if it was not for war. This all boils down to money, because nobody really care about a healthy nation, thy care about making a dollar.
WAR= Profit and so does Private Health Care
People only bring up the cost of the plan. Do you know how much health care is costing people now? Do you know how many people go bankrupt each year because they can’t afford their medical bills because they been dropped by their health-care provider for “pre-existing conditions”? Health-care prices have went up each year despite of the recent recession. I have a small business and my employees as well as myself has been paying more for health insurance each year. I think by bring more people into health insurance will lower rates over time and will provide more interest and motivation to reduce health care related cost.
It’s not like the Government is taking over health care. States require auto-insurance for every driver, do you hear people crying about how it is government ran? So if we require insurance to protect us from injury from an auto-accident why not require insurance to help keep America more healthy?
With driving a car, there are cops to fine peoples driving fast or reckless, does this mean with your analogy that there will be cops that watch what we eat or smoke and fine us , to keep health care cost in check, give me a break
Jeremy, please tell me this post is just comment bait…
how about SE bait too.
This will be a disaster for so many reasons. But from a strictly cost standpoint, the Dems crafted the bill in a way that it would achieve a favorable score from the CBO e.g. 10 years of taxes for 6 years of benefits. Unfortunately, you don’t have a 4 year headstart for the next 10 years.
But the larger picture is that it gives the gov’t an excuse to tax anything they deem to negatively impact your health. Look for the fast food tax or sugary drink tax pretty soon, all under the guise of lowering health care costs.
In Chicago, they have installed those cameras that take pictures of people when they run red lights. To me, those are just the type of thing you can expect when gov’t needs more nad more money. They claim it’s to protect your safety, but it’s nothing more than just a money grab.
History is written by history professors, who are left leaning to say the least. Look at what is taught about the new deal: it’s credited with saving America from communism and the great depression in school textbooks and classes.
So sure, we’ll probably bankrupt the country, but schoolbooks will still contrive to blame it on laissez faire economics.
Hi Jeremy.
As someone who has a disease that is incurable, has two separate bills from being in the hospital for a week in 09 and is having issues now with actually going to a doctor because I have to wait for medical reimbursements from my FSA from my job, I’m not afraid of any new health care legislation that will help out all the folks who actually need real health care…and as far as I’m concerned real health care means if your already paying insurance premiums, that’s it. Your done. No bill after you get out of a hospital to deal with. The hospital and the doctors have already been paid…by the health insurance that I pay premiums every month to have. Health care in this country should not be a political issue, it should be a human issue…period.
First, I’m sorry to hear about your condition. And second, I just way to say I agree with you when you said: “Health care in this country should not be a political issue, it should be a human issue…period.”
I agree with you, but I think the health care bill being a political issue is inevitable. Everything becomes political as long as the government proposes it.
You said it. No one believes that it is fiscally responsible and the government fails at almost everything they try to do.
Now were going to spend so much more taxes
Republicans had 8 years to do something about health care. They didn’t. The premiums sky rocketed on their watch. What did they do? Nothing. Actually, they passed a Medicare prescription bill they didn’t pay for.
The bill isn’t going to make everyone happy, but I prefer this action over the inaction that has occurred and will occur in the Congress over the next 20 years if nothing is done.
Healthcare a right.. UGH
You do not have the right to someone else’s services.
People need to understand what insurance is, a transfer of risk. Not pre-paid services.
Comments about how paying for health care will destroy the economy forget that 17% of GDP or $2.5 trillion is going annually toward health care right now. In most of the other first world countries that people claim are going broke, the citizens only pay 10-11% of GDP and yet their health care is considered the same or better than that of American in most cases. For a bill that costs roughly $100 billion annually or 4% of the total spent on health care currently and allows 95% of people to be covered, this seems like a fairly reasonable expenditure.
While we can all talk about how the government is so inefficient, if they are able to operate at anywhere near the efficiency levels achieved by governments in these other countries, they could potentially save as much as $1trillion a year simply by getting the 17% of GDP spending down to 10%. How can we reasonably assume that the most powerful government in the world is so much more incompetent than the rest of the governments out there?
Two Words: Nancy Pelosi
Would any of you want to have her as a business partner? That’s right – no way. I have no idea why we trust the future of this country to this bunch of misfits and back door dealers.
BTW – Free health care is an oxymoron. Just because you don’t pull out your wallet at time of service doesn’t mean it is ‘free’. It will be more expensive than ever. When companies can’t service their debt, they go bankrupt. The same thing will happen to us. This bill makes it a matter if when, not if.
Goodbye USA.
Vote these criminals out of office in November.
Universal health care is good for any country.
As a Canadian, I am thrilled that the bill just passed.
Every citizen of every country surely deserves fair access to health care without incurring financial disaster. I will not pretend that our health care system in Canada is perfect, but you have taken a major step down the right and just road.
Good on you
I think there’s a solution. Time will tell if this is the right one. All countries have health care problems. Money is just part of it.
I’m have been a big Obama supporter since the beginning. I’m not up to date with the topic 100% but i hope this would be a turn around cause the world’s economy relies on u.s.a. So i hope it plays out well
I have worked in the health-care bus for 20 years, and we do have a major problem with health care today, unfortunately this bill does nothing to address it, the cost of health-care is the problem. They say they they are cutting back on cost by reducing fraud and abuse but they are not addressing the fundamental problem. The gov. method for cutting cost is to not pay as much for it, this will just provide less of it, if the providers are not being paid they will just not do the work, combined with free or entitled services (more people will demand the service if it is free) and you have long lines for the service, great we will break the part of the system that works now, great services when you need them.
Cost will only be reduced through innovation, and innovation comes when smart ambitious people see a way to make money at it while meeting a need. The problem with health-care is that the decisions about what is value is being provided by the payers, today that is Medicare/Medicaid and the insurance company’s. When you have one payer making the decision for millions of people you have the same thing going on that broke the Soviet Union.
The only way too reduce cost is to let the free market system work, that is when millions of people make the decisions for them selves about what is value, you as an individual would never pay $12 for a Tylenol or $600 for a hammer, (yet the Gov. and Insurance company’s do it all the time.) If you are making the decision you would pitch a fit and if the provider did not fix it you would go across the street to the clinic that lets you bring in your own Tylenol, and if we all do that the first place will be out of bus. or change its price. (look at Lasik or plastic surgery for the answers, these have gotten less expensive and the quality has gone up over time)
Passing a bill and implementing it correctly are two completely different things. Unfortunately, the government doesn’t have a great track record in efficiently implementing programs, so while I’d love to be supportive, I’m scared to death…..
You’d think this demographic would be a little more concerned with the business side of things.
Per the WSJ, the house flavor of the bill had a self employed family of four with 102k coming in being expected to pay 20% of that for health care! (Not sure if that’s been updated?)
Have any of these ninnies ever run a business. We’re at about 5% right now and cannot fathom paying 4x as much. It’s just not there.
The comparison to other countries is hollow- show me the defense spending of Sweden, Canada, Norway and all these other countries that offer health care. Oh, that’s right, you can’t, there aren’t enough zeros for it to even show up next to ours.
Greg says:
“The comparison to other countries is hollow – show me the defense spending of Sweden, Canada, Norway and all these other countries that offer health care. Oh, that’s right, you can’t, there aren’t enough zeros for it to even show up next to ours.”
Thank god for that. Those countries spend money helping their citizens instead of pissing in everyone’s cornflakes around the world.
And if you really believe the lies that “if you like your current insurance, you can keep it” skip ahead to 49 seconds.
Obama 2007: “I don’t think we’re going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk
I would have preferred smaller steps instead of rushing through a massive overhaul. Eliminate the ability of insurance companies from canceling plans for no reason, rejecting people with pre-existing conditions, upping the youth age to 26 (with the economy many new college grads will benefit from this). Since many features of this bill don’t impact most until 2014 I don’t understand the push for it to go in NOW. I think they could have listened to people, worked on smaller steps to address the most pressing needs, and then attacked the bigger problems facing some Americans.
It’s simple! Health Care run by government free but bad quality. Private Health Care expensive but great quality.
Where did you hear this about free healthcare?
What do you mean bankrupt? America is already in billions of fiscal deficit! Can it get worse.
Doesn’t anyone realize that this is Health Care Reform Version 1.0 ? The first version is usually buggy and will improve over time with upgrades and new versions. The real work starts now!
Personally I think this reform was long overdue. The US is the only industrialized country where it’s ok to let someone go bankrupt over a health issue (around 60% of personal bankruptcies are due to medical bills http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/06/05/bankruptcy.medical.bills/ ) and where it’s ok to even deny kids health coverage if they have a pre-existing condition. We’ve got to start somewhere to change this.
Only thing that worries me and leads to the idea the country will bankrupt themselves is that this universal health care will be spent on those who never added a cent to the countries coffers.
While being funded by all the middle, upper, and recent graduates and their higher taxes they’ll have to pay out. And if they are paying taxes there’s a good chance they already have some type of health care.
Health care is very important and not having it is dangerous. But before we decide who can get universal healthcare. Maybe we need to start offering these illegals citizenship so they have to pay their fair dues.
Forget their past and just sign them all up. I’m sure they’d rather live here and fork over some taxes than go back to their countries.
They are killing America and I have no where else to go because everywhere else is already dead. What happened to individualism? What happened to liberty? What happened to what it meant to be an American? Free market, Capitalism is the only moral economic system. Karl Marx said that the first step to Communism is Socialism. This is bill is an entitlement. This bill is socialistic. This bill is just another step along the path to an ultimate evil. Ever since the 1930s, America has been slowly shifting to the evils of this world. (It start before that with the charter given to the Federal Reserve (central bank) by Woodrow Wilson after WWI. Our Fore Fathers fought against the central banking system when they left Europe. Andrew Jackson even revoked the charter of one of the original central banks and gave that power back to the people (the Treasury)).
The founders of this country fought against the worst evils of the world. They fought against Feudalism. They fought against evil economic systems. They fought against tyrant monarchies. They did the greatest thing ever: they created the individual. They created a society and a system that gave everything to the individual. They gave the individual power, rights, free enterprise. They made it possible for man to be what he is supposed to be “free and independent” as Kennedy said.
I do not believe in “from each according to ability, to each according to his need” as the philosophies of Communism preach. I do not believe in charity. I am better than you and I believe it. If you insist on stealing from me in order to subsidize your life and your entitlements, I own you. You are my slave and my property. The government may stand in the way of me exercising my right over you but a way and method will be found. You already submit yourself to the government as a slave. Anyone who believes in such methods and means should be the slave that they are. You are less than a human being and belong with the animals.
Anyone who tells me to deny my ego is wrong. I am an individual and a human being. The only thing I owe to you is to respect your natural born rights and not kill you; otherwise, I owe you nothing more. I will not disrespect you by giving you charity. I will not accept the insult of you offering me charity. Benjamin Franklin said, “We should make the poor uncomfortable, to kick them out of poverty.” The poor in this country are poor because they choose so. Government entitlements only keep people poor. They subdue and keep people quiet. They have them yield everything for a little of nothing. There are numerous examples of people coming from absolutely nothing and having everything when they were finished. This is not possible in any other country. You are free to choose to be poor or choose to be wealthy. If is YOUR choice and that of no one else. If you choose to be poor or choose to yield your power as a human being so be it, it is YOUR choice. I hate that every citizen in this country, those who deserve it and those who do not, have been kicked in the face and disrespected in such a manner with this bill and the ones like it previous have done.
You don’t see the issue at hand is not about pre-existing conditions or being inhumane (or whatever label you want to put on it). It is much more than this and much, much bigger. It is about liberty and being a free individual. The government is intruding on my freedom and liberty. Yes, government is a necessary evil as Jefferson said but the least we have of it the better. But the government has become a faction of which James Madison speak of in the Federalist No. 10. The masses are ignorant and do not know what they are doing or what they are asking for. As George Bernard Shaw once said, “A government with the policy to rob Peter to pay Paul can be assured of the support of Paul.” Shaw also said, “Liberty means responsibility. That’s why most men dread it.”
Life is like poker. Everyone is given a set of cards at the beginning of life. Liberty makes it possible for you to end with the a better hand than you started with. With liberty and freedom, I can start with a 7 high and end with a Royal Flush if I so choose or I can stay at 7 high. Taking away my freedom of choice and my liberty in any form or way means I am only suck at my 7 or 8 high at best hand. Yes, some people start off worse than others because of genetics or uncontrollable circumstances but these same people have qualities or experience that another born without deficiencies does not. It balances out if you so choose to make it balance so instead of sitting around with your hands out, make decisions and make your life better. Pursue happiness.
“I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.” – Ayn Rand
By stealing from me in the forms of money, wealth, and liberty to give to another person, whether it be Social Security or through this bill, is asking me to lay down my life for the sake of another which I refuse to do. Eventually all the immovable movers of the world will stop. They will stop producing. They will stop providing value. They will stop providing innovation. They will “shrug” as Atlas should have done. We are on a path of destruction. It will either be done by “conquest or consent”. I choose conquest because I will not yield my right to absolute liberty and freedom to no man. Many people miss the greater meaning of what is going on and are too afraid to face the truth.
John Locke said that a government can only be in existence as long as it has the “consent of the governed.” If there is no longer “consent of the governed” then there is a revolt and a revolution and a new government is established, just as it occurred in 1776. I never thought there could ever be a revolution in America. It started out perfectly. I didn’t think it could be messed up but it is. The government is gaining less and less of my consent everyday. Maybe someday there will be a revolution and I know what side I will be on. But then again, maybe there are too many “Pauls” in this country.
“Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government.”
- Henry Kissinger in an address to the Bilderberger meeting at Evian, France, May 21, 1992.
“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety”
-Benjamin Franklin
Think about it. There is something much bigger than the current issue at hand. This is only one step in a grand scheme. It is slow moving and it is taking over. I will stand and allow myself to be killed before I will yield and bow down. Do not get lost because nothing is ever what it seems on the surface. I bid you farewell and the best of luck. Do not ever yield your rights or your liberties in the slightest manner for any man or entity. Be an American Individual like you are supposed to be. Good luck.
Epic tea party speech dude! Is that the official canned response? or the Glenn Beck take?
Either way thumbs up amigo =)
What happened to Obama saying he wasn’t going to raise taxes? You can sugarcoat it all you want but it’s just another a tax increase. Something else for the government to collect money on and provide crappy service.
Yea taxes don’t help anyone, we shouldn’t even pay taxes, i think we should abolish the government and leave things like police and fire and emergency services, road paving up to private corporations. If you can’t afford it too bad, make more money, work harder. If your house is on fire and don’t have the cash, oh well looks like you should have planned for that!
HAHAHAHA
The more I read/watch news coverage about this bill, the more questions I have. And in response to Tech, of course it’s good for any country. That is, if it works perfectly. But does it or will it? Let’s just see.
All I can say is you voted for Obama and there were plenty of people around warning about what a disaster he would be for the USA. If he can do this to the health care industry, the auto industry he can do it to any industry.
It’s too late now though… the country is well on the way to collapsing.
RIP USA
“and unlike every other government run program (medicare, social security) this one will actually work.” Says it all. Its going to drive us so far into debt its not funny.
Followed by the Government stepping in and running all health care as a “solution” to the massive problem its going to create. Its excessively socialistic and is just another step toward us giving more of our money to the government to waste. Combine that with a loss of freedom and you have another step away from the premise of what this country was founded on.
This is Amazing for the First Time American People going take care own People. Big Country Like American have the right defend own people. They start today by make the right choice.
Everybody’s saying something different about the health care bill and I’m gettin’ more and more confused. Some people say that it’s our responsibility to help other Americans who cannot help themselves, and some say that the only responsibility we have is to ourselves. Personally, I say if the legislation is a little more specific, it could be an excellent way to provide for those who cannot provide for themselves.
Obama Sucks: I don’t think it’s fair to say that. We’re talking about the health care bill here, not Obama. But since we’re on the topic, Obama did promise change to the people who voted for him. And with this bill, he is starting to change things a little bit. Plus, it’s too early to be such a pessimist. Let’s see if this bill does its job.
Oh? You wanna pass it and THEN see what’s in it? Don’t worry, we’ll find out when your insurance premiums go UP, and your taxes go UP, and the quality of our healthcare goes DOWN, along with this once great Republic in a sea of debt and good feelings.
I’ve been really interested in this debate, shoe. From where I live (Philippines), there is a public health care system although it doesn’t work well. Most people rely on private funded companies as well. I’m deliberating to start working at home after college, but I just realized I might not be covered by the public health care system. I know some friends who have tried to apply but the health care agency doesn’t approve them, and I don’t know why. Anyway, I don’t know how the health care bill in the US will work, but hopefully as other people pointed out it will do its job and not bankrupt your country.
Are you crazy, woman? Haven’t you been listening to anything anyone’s been saying on the message boards and in the news? This bill is a spectacularly bad idea. Not only will its implementation drain the country’s resources, it will encourage people on welfare to stay on welfare because the alternative is too expensive. Soon we’ll have a nation of dependents!
I’m sorry, WhoisDoyle, but I think that’s just ludicrous. Why would you think it would create a nation of dependents – instead of looking at the other side of the coin, and saying that it will create a nation where everyone is willing to help out their neighbors in need? If everyone lent a hand, we would all have enough for our needs. Or do you prefer the current order – where people are so concerned about getting their way that they will easily turn their backs on the people who need them if they don’t get something in return?
“If everyone lent a hand, we would all have enough for our needs.”
Straight from the handbook. Lenin would be proud.
It’s that kind of idealistic thinking that will send our great nation down the drain. There ain’t enough to go around in the first place – why do you think we’re in a recession? This bill is way too prone to abuse.
Before you make hasty generalizations, you might want to double-check your facts. The recession came about exactly because people got too greedy and started borrowing in order to
spend beyond their means.
And the proper administration of the bill will prevent its abuse. You just have to have a little faith instead of shooting down all the administration’s efforts to improve things. I don’t see you doing anything to help.
Maybe everyone should read the facts before they form such resolute opinions.
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/press/PRArticle.aspx?NewsID=10416
and
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/doc11355/hr4872.pdf
Response to TEGS: These are pretty comprehensive sites. I’ll check them out later. Thanks for the links.
typical republican points! rush into this? 18 months for legislation? are these not the people we pay to specifically read, stay up late, consult lawyers to get through all this paperwork that would seem daunting to a regular Joe.
Govt. works? humn the IRS collects my money, A govt’ institution across he street collects an envelope for .47 and sends it to cali, from NY in 3 days? nice! police depts? fire depts? when i dial 9-1-1 it seems to be working fine.
typical red gun totting state mentality
Hey, take it easy on the Republicans. Some of the people here who had strong opinions against the bill may not be Republicans, you know? And not all Republicans are against the bill.
More and more people are denouncing either party and becoming independents. Both parties are full of it. There is still a clear right and left position, however.
There is a new problem. In the past, both right and left were, to varying degrees, devoted to controlling the size of government using the protections outlined in the Constitution. Not anymore. The new left is on a mission to erode the individual, Capitalism, and the sovereignty of the nation. This is the new battle. This INSURANCE bill is just one step, one issue in this.
And this is exactly how an internet marker gets traffic to the site…pick a good topic and let users generate content
.
Hi, I am italian, my wife is American, she didnt have an health insurance because we can not afford it. Before to get married we lived in america, she had a very bad health problem, we were very scared so we went to the hospital. Doctors said she had 90% chances of losing her ovary due to a problem with some cancerogen cells in her cervix if she didnt get surgery fast.
They said if she doesnt die, she will never be able to have a child.
Of course we wanted to act fast, unfortunately the bill for that operation was around $250k, we were shocked, but luckly i had another chance…. luckly in Italy, my country, your health is your right, and they dont even care if you are an immigrant or not, they just heall you if you are sick.
We flew there, doctors took care of her very shortly. Not only we didnt had to pay ONE CENT, but the hospital even paied for the taxi to bring us back home when everithing was finished.
Of course now we live in Italy, and luckly we can see the smile of our childs…
Everybody would understand it if they passed what i passed…
Health should be a right for everyone…
If you cannot afford insurance, it is ALREADY provided for you in America! Whether you are a student or a working man or woman making your way, there are programs both at the Federal level (Medicare / Medicaid) and at the state level). This “people can’t afford it” argument boils down to not that you can’t afford it, but rather you didn’t care enough to fill out a freaking application. At one point, I was on one of these programs while I finished my education.
The illegal practice of recision as well as the ‘pre-existing’ condition clause denials of healthcare are exceptions that truly need attention. But fixing these does not require an overhaul of an entire industry.
You do NOT have the right to another person’s time, skills, and expertise. Medical professionals spend a large portion of their lives in school, pay massive tuition costs, and make enormous sacrifices to earn the skills to care for another human. You are not entitled to the fruits of their labor and sacrifice. That is theft of service.
I would have been stupid if i didnt try to compile to module you just talked about… too bad even the doctor told me, between the time the module will be accepted, if it will be accepted, and the operation shy might be in a very bad condition.
I’m sorry, but I can’t understand what you are trying to say here…
I am just trying to say lucky me in my country health is a right.
My wife is american, i love america for many other things, but guys, no obfece to anybody, but your health system is still based on 400 years old laws…
Great Obama, this is just the first step twards a better world for the COMMUNITY!
From what I have been able to gather from it, it is extremely poor health care that will not be as cheap as it should be. Also, I would like to point out that every friend I have had that is from a country that has free healthcare has said it is much worse off.
I live in WI and a lot of people are trying to get WI out of this. Why? Because we have a state insurance for those that can’t afford their own insurance. It is free and it covers a lot of stuff. It isn’t perfect but it is a lot better than this plan.
“People under 30 will suffer the largest hits on premium increases. As the Washington Post has reported, young adults are likely to pay a huge chunk of Obamacare’s costs. The Oliver Wyman consulting firm conducted a study that revealed that premiums for individuals will jump by $1,576 and families will see their premiums soar by $3,341.
This, of course, affects young people the worst, as those fresh out of college struggle to land jobs in an increasingly hostile job market. More than that, the study projects that Mr. Obama’s overhaul of the American healthcare system will mean that new health insurance policy premiums purchased by the youngest third of the population will rise by 35% under the bill.
(Advice to my fellow Gen Y’ers: Kiss your iTunes and Starbucks habits goodbye.)
Second, the individual mandate provision—which forces us young, healthier folks to buy Obamacare whether we want to or not—is nothing more than stealing from us to take care of grandma and gramps. Think of it as inheritance in reverse.
What ever happened to economic freedom? What about the radical notion that individuals should have the right to buy or forgo buying whatever products they choose?
The youth voters never asked these questions, so caught up in the Mr.Obama’s coolness tsunami as we were. Now that the uber swag “Yes We Can” YouTube videos have fizzled and the iconic red and blue Obama posters have faded, we are left with the economic and healthcare consequences we have wrought.
Not cool, Mr. Obama. Not cool at all.”
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36208
This post got such a heated response, huh? I’m actually on the fence about this issue. Neither pro nor anti. But as someone pointed out, this shouldn’t be a political issue. That’s why it’s hard for me to take a side, because everyone can’t talk about it without getting too political.
I like the idea that everyone should be covered.
In Canada everyone has a right to coverage, even with pre-existing conditions.
What gets me is people who are selfish that don’t think that someone should be eligible for something if he/she cannot pay for it.
It’s ironic that people like that who are the Nimby’s, the ones who don’t want to pay for anything that would benefit everybody will sing (with tears in their eyes) the feel good songs from your entertainers like “We Are The World” and then go back to not caring for their brothers and sisters when the last note is sung.
I dare anyone to read this article linked below, on how Germany turn Nationalized Health Care into Concentration Camps, and then tell us all why Nationalized Health Care will be good for America?
http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/national-health-care-medicine-in-germany-1918-1945/
I read that Japan provides healthcare for every citizen and
requires everybody to join a health insurance plan.
The spend half as much per person as the U.S. and
have a longer life expectancy. They also have 99%
literacy and a 90% graduation rate from high school.
They have eliminated extreme poverty in Japan
but have extreme wealth. If this is true maybe
the U.S. needs to copy some of what Japan is doing.
Jeremy,
Great blog, I’ve been a long time reader just had to jump in on this one…
You are exactly right. When has the US government ever done anything efficient? I doubt they will get it right this time by rushing through a major overhaul in health care, and forcing it on the American people. What audacity our government has forcing this on the American people!
To help people gain access to healthcare you need to raise the standard of living through innovation and investment in the economy, and also allow insurance companies to compete across state line. Not provide free handout!
Instead our Government wants to allow China to build its economy into a powerhouse by allowing China to manipulate its currency providing China an unfair trade advantage against American companies. The sole reason our government allows this unfair trade is so our Government can print and raise cheap money from China to finance its free social programs that will fail. If you haven’t checked lately China it the single largest US Debt with nearly $900 billion is US treasury securities! Being financially owned by a communist country is not in the best interest of America.
Eventually this will become a national security threat for American (if not already) and it will be to late to reverse because our Government became complacent, put us too far into debt and became too reliant on China a communist country.
One thing is for sure be ready for a falling USA empire and higher taxes on all your web earnings. Maybe if your lucky in the future you’ll get to keep working your a#S off to keep 40% of your earning while the government blows thru the rest of the 60% bankrupting the country.
Obama’s slogan was “Change”. Yea we needed Change but not this type of change. We need our government to stop wastefully spending money like it grows on trees and to stop building the communist Chinese empire at American’s expense.
Remember this the next time you vote and don’t hesitate to write your senator and congress man to let them know how you feel!
Funny thing just as I was writing this comment I received the following via email, enjoy! It is sad but true!
—email—-
Some fuzzy math here….
This is too true to be funny.
The next time you hear a politician use the Word ‘billion’ in a casual manner, think about Whether you want the ‘politicians’ spending
YOUR tax money.
A billion is a difficult number to comprehend,
But one advertising agency did a good job of Putting that figure into some perspective in One of it’s releases.
A.
A billion seconds ago it was 1959.
B.
A billion minutes ago Jesus was alive.
C.
A billion hours ago our ancestors were Living in the Stone Age.
D.
A billion days ago no-one walked on the earth on two feet. No one walked on the earth.
E.
A billion dollars ago was only 8 hours and 20 minutes, At the rate our government is spending it.
While this thought is still fresh in our brain…
let’s take a look at New Orleans ..
It’s amazing what you can learn with some simple division.
Louisiana Senator,
Mary Landrieu (D)
Is presently asking Congress for
250 BILLION DOLLARS
To rebuild New Orleans . Interesting number…
What does it mean?
A.
Well … If you are one of the 484,674 residents of New Orleans
(every man, woman, and child)
You each get $516,528.
B.
Or… If you have one of the 188,251 homes in
New Orleans , your home gets $1,329,787.
C.
Or…. If you are a family of four…
Your family gets $2,066,012.
Washington , D. C
HELLO!
Are all your calculators broken??
Building Permit Tax
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax (Fed)
Federal Unemployment Tax (FU TA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Tax
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service charge taxes
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax (Truckers)
Sales Taxes
Recreational Vehicle Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone20Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Tax
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Tax
Vehicle License Registration T ax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax
(And to think, we left British Rule to avoid so many taxes)
STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago…
And our nation was the most prosperous in the world.
We had absolutely no national debt…
We had the largest middle class in the world…
And Mom stayed home to raise the kids.
Q. What happened?
A. Can you spell ‘politicians!’
I hope this goes around the
U S A
At least 100 times
What the heck happened?
—end email—
WTF does this have to do with health care?
Maybe the above email is a stretch, but the rest is legit. The bottom line is that the government can’t do anything efficient.
We already have a failing social security system and Medicare. Why do we need a new government program that will risk $900 Billion and likely fail like the rest of them???
I don’t know about you but I like freedom which is what America is suppose to stand for, not socialism. If I wanted to live with socialism I would move back to Europe where my ancestors came from…
Actually, your ancestors came from a place where the King and a few of his “noble” court friends received the best of everything. The rest of the people lived worse than rats, and paid handsome taxes for the “privilege”.
I’m sorry I can’t tell the difference… LOL!
Here we go they are already talking about a national sales tax….
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/bam_man_pitching_national_sales_TyKWnlkz2W09rQuHKPJx4J
We had eight years of Bush and Cheney, Now you get mad!?
You didn’t get mad when the Supreme Court stopped a legal recount and appointed a President.
You didn’t get mad when Cheney allowed Energy company officials to dictate energy policy.
You didn’t get mad when a covert CIA operative got outed.
You didn’t get mad when the Patriot Act got passed.
You didn’t get mad when we illegally invaded a country that posed no threat to us.
You didn’t get mad when we spent over 600 billion(and counting) on said illegal war.
You didn’t get mad when over 10 billion dollars just disappeared in Iraq.
You didn’t get mad when you found out we were torturing people.
You didn’t get mad when the government was illegally wiretapping Americans.
You didn’t get mad when we didn’t catch Bin Laden.
You didn’t get mad when you saw the horrible conditions at Walter Reed.
You didn’t get mad when we let a major US city, New Orleans, drown.
You didn’t get mad when we gave a 900 billion tax break to the rich.
You didn’t get mad when the deficit hit the trillion dollar mark.
You finally got mad when the government decided that people in America deserved the right to see a doctor if they are sick. Yes, illegal wars, lies, corruption, torture, stealing your tax dollars to make the rich richer, are all okay with you, but helping other Americans…oh hell no.
This cut and paste job makes an ass out of you with its assumptions. They are shortsighted and idiotic, not to mention having no bearing on the discussion. You should probably fill the list of “You didn’t get mad when..” with things that people didn’t get mad at. Because several of those items did piss me off. However, that would require that you actually write something.
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This is such a big issue. I really don’t know what will come of it. Kind of scary, as we are in such debt already.
thanks for all your comments they opened my eyes to many things
Wonderful suggestions. I always stick to your suggestions and implement them.
The courts will have to resolve this.
lol, this is what I mean:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP
If you pay 30% in taxes, we pay 50% in Sweden and Denmark, 44% in Norway, 43% in Finland and 40% in Iceland.
And all countries are like top-15 on GDP per capita
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita
with all due respect 50% income tax is a problem. And has anyone done the math to see if we could even scale into the United States of Sweden?
YM-sorry to hear that happned to you but it was preventalbe if you has independantly purchased health insurance which is actually not that expensive for a young, realitively healthy person. Most colleges also offer plans for students to sign up for. I bet you had a cell phone and internet access when you got sick. You took the risk of not carrying health insurance and you, rightly so, paid the price. It sucked, I am sure and I feel for you but your health care should not be on my tax bill because you failed to plan and protect yourself. People should think of health insurance right up there with rent when it come to financial priorities.
This bill does some good things to increase access and the way people can buy a policy, but it is wrong to expect the tax payers to foot the bill. And it is wrong to ever think that someone else shoud be responsible for you. Once you give up that responsibility for yourself, you have invited government into your life. The government cannot afford to pay for this entitlement-that should be clear to all of us. When that happens, they will cut back quality and quantity of care and start to penilize people for their private choices.
What about the people who have genetic diseases? My wife has MS – Multiple Sclerosis – that medication without insurance cost 40k dollars a year. There is no cure and no generic drugs available. Should these people just work harder? What if they lose their job should they stop taking their medication and stop walking, lose their eye site and die? Yea they just need to work harder that will do it.
Jeff, first I’m sorry to hear about your wife’s condition. I can’t imagine how tough it is to endure. But, you are missing the point. This problem of recision and pre-existing condition exclusion is a real one, and EVERYONE agrees it should be resolved. Both parties agree that no insurance company should be allowed to deny coverage simply because you have become expensive.
However, this does not require a complete takeover and overhaul. Changes should be made steadily and purposefully to solve this problem and others, while testing the results and shifting to meet unforseen challenges and consequences. This is the way to ensure success, not some blind rush for power as we see today.
No one even has a clue how this bill will affect the country 5-10 years from now, and that uncertainty will cripple us as surely as the debt that arises from this new and massive entitlement program.
This country is so f’ing third world when it comes to such things as the well being of it’s people. This country will never make it in the end with this sort of attitude. What do you think just bankrupted our damn country? My problem is the legalized fleecing that we still face from the crooks we bailed out. Oil at $80 a barrel with the highest inventories in recent history. But that’s free market right? LOL, give me a break. Free market to rape and pillage, while Goldman Sachs and the lot continue to pillage under the so called free markets. Actually read how these companies make money and caused you far more pain in inflation then this bill ever will. If half the idiots in this country actually knew what was going on they would give two pieces of crap about this healthcare bill. Most sheep in this country are led around by idiots that tell them what they should be worried about. Big corporations love pulling the strings on the typical american. Educate yourselves and show some compassion for someone besides yourself, if you want to truly make this country great.
“that the politics in USA is very inhuman. There is no room for humans and there conditions as for principles that don’t help anyone”
You obviously don’t know jack about American politics. Yea, maybe our politics are inhuman now with a socialist as our president but, your rant is typical European wussy, feel good crap. If it weren’t for our “principles that don’t help anyone”, all of Europe would be doing the goose step right now.
We got where we are as a country because of the freedom and the opportunity to do what we want, but the people of the USA are being robbed by a government out of control and taking more and more of our hard earned money to keep their bloated, cancerous, bleeding hearts alive.
Maybe you ought to take a visit to some of the cemeteries along the beaches of Europe and see who’s buried there before you spew more mindless rhetoric about our inhuman politics.
Carl,
with all due respect, you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. You are entitled to your opinion and you think it may be no big deal to just change the constitution whenever it is convenient, but hopefullly you read Jason and Weight Loss Diet Plan’s posts.
The last thing we need is for our government running ‘disease’ care.
Your rant has nothing to do with healthcare.
And neither does this Bill.
A fallacy of reason that keeps popping up (wrongs make a right) is this attempt to minimize the legitimacy of an argument by bringing up irrelevant events that supposedly excuse the point of the argument. While the person using ‘wrongs make a right’ as a tool to try and derail a discussion, they invalidate any points they might be able to make (in this case, none).
That is to say I agree with you.
No, he a point even if you don’t like how he presented it. You cannot compare or scale the effects of policy between the two countries. No one posting on this page is qualified for these massively complex considerations. So soothe your politically correct hurt feelings, because he’s right.
For one, the U.S. has not been around 400 years. Additionally, this Bill is not about healthcare, it is a takeover of the INSURANCE industry. Eventually, the Government will choke private industry out of competition simply due to the fact it can print money and set it’s own prices. This is NOT a good thing.
Secondly, the government does not have the RIGHT to use my income to “make a better world community”. He only has the rights given to him by the Constitution, which is limited to the defense of the United States and specific areas of commerce and common services.
Also, our healthcare system is the most innovative in the world. U.S private industry is responsible for a staggering percentage of new medical breakthroughs and treatments. If it weren’t for our healthcare system, the world would be stuck in the dark ages.
OK Master Fizzy – master and king of all peoples throughout the world.
You make a great point.
My point exactly. LOL!
explain “scale into united states of sweden”.
and with all due respect I think you miss my point. There is no problem of having 50% taxes. It works!
You see, even the taxes are high the socity is one of the riches and best working. So you can’t say high taxes are a problem.
here is another view:
http://lolpic.se/758-taxes