What if while during a sign up process you had an opt in checkbox which you agreed that you were a total idiot. Would you notice?
I am betting you wouldn’t.
What if I put in a privacy policy that says that I can do anything I want with your data including rights to ownership. Would you still do it?
I am betting you would.
What if I put in a terms of service that said I rule and you lose in every way imaginable. Would you still do it?
I am betting you would.
Why? Because almost every major website does exactly these things. Ever read the Facebook terms of service? Ever read any affiliate offer’s privacy policy?
Are these companies evil? No… this disclosure crap has gotten so out of hand that they have to do this to cover their tracks.
Now Google, for their own commercial interests are strongly campaigning for MORE government mandated disclosure.
Where does it end? It doesn’t.
We have become SO NUMB to these massive agreements and terms of services and privacy policies that nobody ever could possible read, that it has had exactly the opposite effect.
Here is what every blog will have in the footer within a couple years-
“Disclosure: I am benefiting financially or otherwise from everything you click on, read, or look at while on my website.” – In fact I might add that today.
But who does that help??
When can we get back to personal responsibility? Or can we ever?
July 15, 2009 at 8:50 am
Jeremy, we all suffer from stupidity, and if everyone had a little common sense and respect we probably wouldn’t be where we are with TOS. It sucks that most TOS are not simple statements (which they should be).
July 4, 2009 at 1:28 pm
jeremy, your right, never read any TOS till date, but have agreed to all of them!
July 3, 2009 at 8:22 pm
There is no personal responsibility anymore – hence why everyone sue’s over anything these days!
June 25, 2009 at 7:36 pm
i dont see it happing
June 25, 2009 at 8:10 am
It would truly be fantastic to get back to personal responsibility, but I just can not see it happening myself either. Lawyers need a reason for existing, after all….
June 25, 2009 at 4:59 am
I wonder how enforceable that kind of “small print” is. Given that no one actually reads it and we all pretty much universally accept that no one reads it – doesn’t that kind of invalidate it. I guess the law is the law but reason says to me those T&Cs can’t really stand.
They do really need to pull out the key points and summarise in “plain English”.
June 24, 2009 at 9:07 pm
I just went back and read your comment policy and disclaimer. Its true, most people now just trust these big sites.
June 24, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Omg. Its good but not very good
June 24, 2009 at 8:14 am
Certainly everybody is responsible for reading the TOS, if you don’t, it’s your own fault…but on the other hand certain unexpectable or extremely unusual terms that are clearly a rippoff should be void even if the user agrees.
Bad faith shouldn’t be justifiable via the TOS.
June 24, 2009 at 2:33 am
Dear Jeremy and Dear Friends…
Facebook and privacy. Problems for the Social Network?
Facebook has already proved to have problems of security and protection of user data.
Known past history of the photos disappeared, then the damage type of XSS.
The social networking portal that has the primary function as “data keeper” suffers from a flaw and also worrying.
The new vulnerability made public by the new FBHive, could generate a catastrophic discontent for Facebook. Fortunately, was quickly closed … (Not in 4 months like last time)
FBHive had claimed to know a method to access the private profile of any user Face Book even if protected.
Nobody believed us, not even that FaceBook has challenged FBHive demonstration of this claim.
The result?
The flaw existed it Facebook and immediately identified the Bug then making public the news will include details!
Bye.
June 23, 2009 at 10:57 pm
Ridiculous. So many things are overregulated. I’ll tell you right now NOBODY wants to read that disclosure statement. Nobody.
June 23, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Screw the I’m an idiot box. Make it say I agree to forfeit my soul to you. haha
June 23, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Yes. We are numb and dumb. A friend of mine started a site http://www.everythingsok.com addressing the lack of personal responsibility in the real world. Online, it’s even worse.
June 23, 2009 at 5:01 pm
I’ve been working for a local ISP for the past year. Its amazing how gullable people are! They don’t read. They ones that do won’t follow instruction. No matter what THEY do wrong, its always someone elses fault.
June 23, 2009 at 1:28 pm
I’m also talking about the same problem on my blog in italy.
few people are attentive to this way of suppressing the human intelligence.
is like cutting the wings of a gull. but those who have power think they can do whatever he wants.
we must yell against this power “exaggerated”!
sorry for my english
June 23, 2009 at 11:07 am
This is just the beginning. And I don’t think it’s a google thing…rather, it’s the OLD MEDIA establishment launching a subversive campaign to discredit online publishers and invoke fear into the masses to deter them from using blogs, web, etc. It’s a last ditch effort to stave of the impending wave that will wash their industry off the face of the planet in the years ahead.
The bird cage liner industry is the culprit. Don’t believe that this is a powerful lobby? They elect are leaders an influence our policy. Look at the state of North Carolina. In a sneaky session this month they decided to pass a law that essential puts every affiliate marketer in the state out of business starting next month (didn’t hear about this in the newspapers or TV did you). Amazon is already pulling out of the state, and many others are quickly dropping ALL of their NC affiliates. Why? Because the state got the idea somehow to start imposing a bizarre sales taxes on online things like coupon codes and affiliate link clicks? (No shit!) Beyond trying to figure out the accounting on this disaster, the logic is just retarded. It would be like charging a newspaper every time someone used a coupon from their insert! Or worse yet, every time someone bought something from their classified ad section!
Not to mention the FTC crack down on bloggers that made news this past week. (but that a separate rant)
This is the beginning of a coming battle between new and old media, or it may just be a crazy person leaving a comment on a blog.
btw…I’m going to use your new disclaimer on my sites as well…kinda says it all.
June 23, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Very Well said Denny & I strongly agree with all of your points.
June 23, 2009 at 9:58 am
Privacy policies and terms of service could use the help of something like creative commons and follow the lead of sites like mollom.com that make there policies clear and easy to understand.
June 29, 2009 at 9:51 am
Good point. The creative commons is something people should become aware of.
June 23, 2009 at 6:38 am
It’s like the hot coffee case… they write it because people are quick to sue… same thing happen right here… it’s too easy to sue people for anything… that’s the major problem
June 23, 2009 at 5:35 am
Lol thats kinda hilarious Jeremy. Why the sudden thought about this?
June 23, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Probably due to this: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10269962-38.html or a some story much like it.
June 23, 2009 at 4:03 am
LOL, how can you be an idiot Jeremy?
June 23, 2009 at 3:59 am
Who bothers to read disclosures anyway?…
June 23, 2009 at 3:43 am
Not reading a disclosure policy or TOS does not make one an idiot. For that matter, how many people read the general conditions of an Insurance Policy? probably not a whole lot as well.
Me, I have to admit that I don’t. I will probably read it only if I will take an action within that website, e.g. purchase something. For example, before joining your Extreme Course, I made sure I didn’t have to pay anything before, during or after:)
June 23, 2009 at 2:59 am
Just now applied for Market Leverage affiliate program and just for all of you to know their privacy policy and user agreement is such a huge that it will take around 2 days to read and understand fully. Do you think in such fast pace life we all have this much of time ?? Do we actually agree to all of these norms or we just put check for the sack of putting it ?? Do let me know your thoughts on what you guys think for the point which i have mentioned above.
June 23, 2009 at 2:39 am
You’re absolutely right Shaz, but nobody cares about it. Isn’t it mean that they’re idiots? Hehehe…
June 23, 2009 at 2:35 am
We just put name, select user ID, give email address and at the end of form check the box mentioning we accept terms and conditions.
Even interesting thing is very less website show their rules and regulations on same page.
June 23, 2009 at 2:19 am
i never pay attention about that ,,, must read more ,,,
June 23, 2009 at 2:13 am
Agree, added today!
June 23, 2009 at 1:58 am
Few of the website privacy policy is 100% bullshit as far as storing personal data is concerned, even many have mentioned that they can have all rights to do anything with the personal data even though its written on form that their data would not be shared with any one. It is very much difficult to understand privacy policy business across the internet. For example i am doing business on internet using paypal as my gateway, i have to be very much careful because at any and every given point of time paypal can make my account limited and ask for verification proofs as and when they want. If you have 100% business running on paypal and if your account limited without your concern, just understand what would be your situation ??
June 23, 2009 at 1:43 am
Ill throw up a discolsure as soon as google discloses how much adsense perecentage they share…..
June 22, 2009 at 11:39 pm
I’ll only agree it if it has a big blue S on it. Otherwise no way.
Ever considered the Shoemoney seal of good housekeeping? Or the Shoemoney Better Business Bureau. I am just saying
June 22, 2009 at 11:11 pm
Neece 1! lovely post
June 22, 2009 at 10:50 pm
Usually I don’t have enough time to read all displayed when I work on a website. Then I will just skip the reading, click the proper button, and see the result. I only notice whenever I don’t get the result as I want to.
June 22, 2009 at 10:59 pm
Same here. I don’t even bother reading disclosure statements.
June 22, 2009 at 8:23 pm
the thing is, these terms don’t hold any weight in court as they are so broad. They are next to useless.
June 22, 2009 at 10:23 pm
i don’t agree that much?…these are only trash and therefore can’t hold together in court. it will only become a laughing stock? darn… guess what, one day a criminal suit will greet you good morning.
June 23, 2009 at 12:37 am
I could be wrong. See this article: http://newmedialaw.proskauer.com/tags/online-contracts/
June 22, 2009 at 8:22 pm
Mabye if they joined one program, and made a living off of that. After 100’s they don’t read anymore.
You need to be more careful.
June 22, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Jeremy,
Personal responsibility went out the window November 5, 2008. The idea of catering to the “victim” has taken over and only our beloved government is there to protect us from ourselves. It is a sad state of affairs that this country has gotten itself into and unfortunately, given the current political climate, is not one we will pull out of for many, many years too come. Thankfully, your grand children will be paying for it, so its not all bad!!
June 23, 2009 at 5:08 pm
That date isn’t the beginning point of any of the troubles. Do you acknowledge that?
June 22, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Unfortunately, I’m one of those who don’t usually read the TOS and Privacy Policy. The reason is that most of them are boring.
On the other hand, it’s recommended to read always the Terms Of Service. We should know the rules and laws before using a website and find out what is allowed and what’s not.
Thanks Jeremy for this cool, yet informative post.
Regards!
Hooshmand
June 22, 2009 at 6:01 pm
i know I have become so accustomed to reading these terms and services because i keep seeing them pull up all the time EVERYTIME I sign up to something, but I started to think…well They are just trying to cover themselves in case anything come up….who knows.
June 22, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Hehe, I think everybody who reads your blog already knows this.
June 22, 2009 at 4:58 pm
I recently put a disclosure page on my blog, because even though i use it like a personal diary. i may offend some idiots
June 22, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Thing is what ever is written is so long and boring nobody cares a damn!
June 22, 2009 at 3:06 pm
I should start paying more attention to TOS and Agreements. When i sign up to something i don’t read them.
June 22, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Well how many people really care what there data is being used for as long as it is not hurting them…like when Google started the street thing, people started getting the wierdest of apprehensions…lolz…below that, everyone is fine I believe!
June 22, 2009 at 2:45 pm
I, for one am an idiot because i never read PPs.
June 22, 2009 at 2:43 pm
The grammatical error in the headline hammers your point home very well
.
In seriousness though, I think most consumers are trusting of public companies, venture-backed and buzz-worthy start-ups, or any site recommended by a trusted friend. It’s the wisdom (or lack thereof) of crowds.
The responsibility can fall to consumers only if they understand the basics. The average joe doesn’t understand what a cookie is.
June 22, 2009 at 2:05 pm
I agree with Shoe. Personal responsibility is the key. Not more govt. Learn from your mistakes, natural selection, all that crap. Sick of this govt trying to child proof our economy, that’s gonna be the downfall of us all.
June 22, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Personal responsibility doesn’t exist in this country with a guy like Obama in office. It’s bizarro world. People that work hard, pay bills, and make money are greedy. People that can’t pay for health insurance or their houses are “hard working Americans”.
June 22, 2009 at 1:19 pm
We have something in common. We both admit we are idiot!
http://www.stocktradersblog.com/my-life/i-admit-i-am-an-idiot-shorting-bank-of-america/
June 22, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Jeremy looks like we have something in common. We both admit we are idiot!
http://www.stocktradersblog.com/my-life/i-admit-i-am-an-idiot-shorting-bank-of-america/
June 22, 2009 at 12:55 pm
No one reads the terms and conditions… which is why so many business models are successful. Imagine how many people wouldn’t join lists and buy things if they knew their data was being stored for demographic information and/or sold?
June 23, 2009 at 1:54 am
I totally agree with your views Zac. No one knows what is happening with the personal data. Internet is becoming money minting place as far as personal data is concerned.
June 22, 2009 at 12:52 pm
I must admit that sometimes I don’t really read the terms and policy of websites. One thing, it’s long and boring. I bet, most of us simply check the “Yes, I agree” box.
June 22, 2009 at 12:22 pm
I’m sure this post is in relation to the article that the government is going to start holding blog owners responsible for paid posts, etc. I think this is absolutely outrageous!!
Any idiot should follow a blog and decide if the person is someone you feel close enough with to trust their judgment or not. Sure you could have a team of spammers to post on each comment with support to seem more legit, but thats what research is for! The government needs to get over it.
June 22, 2009 at 12:22 pm
There are websites you can trust and others that you can’t. I use an email address especially for untrusted websites and I don’t use my real name or info on those sites. That’s my way of protecting myself.
June 22, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Is this one of those sites, or is Asswass your real name?
June 24, 2009 at 11:27 am
Asswass is my nickname. This is a fully trusted site for me
June 22, 2009 at 11:52 am
thats exactly the point. This is to prevent people from suing us site owners. The US is actually still VERY lax in that sense.
Eg. in Germany you need to put your full address/phone on every site. If you don’t you will quickly get a C/D letter from some lawyer and are forced to pay a few grand because you forgot this little detail.
June 22, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Is this for real? That sucks!
June 22, 2009 at 5:00 pm
thats for real, thats wy it sucks to be a german webmaster, thats the reason why .de domains so fucking cheap, thats only the tip of the iceberg of sucking german internet laws.
June 23, 2009 at 6:08 am
Yes. But it has nothing to do with .de domains. Afaik, as long as you are living in Germany, you are bound to these rules (even if your server is located in the US).
While it sucks sometimes, it is generally a good idea that commercial websites have to display their address and a detailed privacy policy etc.
But what really sucks is that if you use Google Analytics for example, you have to notify your visitors about that. I mean, if someone does not like Google Analytics, they could just edit theirs “hosts” file and everything would be fine for them…
June 25, 2009 at 8:05 am
Typical teutonic efficiency! It is a good way to prevent fraud from being perpetuated, so while it sucks, it does offer some sort of customer protection and assurance that they’re dealing with a legitimate business.
June 22, 2009 at 11:42 am
I agree – and I also rarely read the terms of service and statements. I don’t even have one on my website right now..
June 22, 2009 at 11:29 am
Actually, if it’s a website or service where my IP is concerned (articles, photos, source code, etc), I read the terms of service *extremely* carefully. You won’t find anything I give a rat’s patootie about on my Facebook account. Or twitter. Or Myspace. Or in any comment I leave on a blog here and there.
Otherwise, you’re pretty much correct. I assume I will have no privacy, that my information will be sold or traded without my consent or knowledge, and that in general, the entire system is structured to extract as much profit at my expense as possible. It’s a useful point of view as it seems to fit observations very well. So I don’t pay much attention.
In fact, I assume your terms of service allow you to use my comments for your own profit. That’s ok, make a billion. It’s cool.
June 22, 2009 at 11:13 am
@Stefanie – there is no way to stop. In a ’sue happy’ world people HAVE to cover there butts.
Sadly, this is the truth – i mean everyone has a cell phone but have you ever read the TOS on it. It’s simple amazing the things ‘they CAN’ do if they really wanted to.
June 22, 2009 at 11:13 am
I was surprised in the recent affiliate poll that you published that so many do read the affiliate agreement. I scroll though it and occasionally go back and search for certain advertising forms but that’s it.
June 22, 2009 at 11:12 am
A very interesting thought. For that matter, I often wonder why these T&Cs or, privacy policies are made. Firstly it is so lengthy and full of crap that people just read the first line and then ignore the rest of it and click the checkbox saying, “I agree”. Who in this busy world has the time to read 3 full pages of crap? But the fact of the matter is that the actual and important part is there somewhere in between, where you will hardly notice. Probably put there intentionally so that you don’t go over it and decide not to “Agree” to the terms.
But it is always very important that you read through these things in order to ensure that you are protected.
June 22, 2009 at 11:00 am
After the agreement to TOS there are 5 quiz questions (True / False). So to get past that the used has to read key features of the TOS to proceed.
June 22, 2009 at 10:50 am
You can also use the ‘Unlimited Domains’ webhosting promotions through Bluehost and Hostgator. They all boast UNLIMITED but when you read the fine print, you only get 50,000 ‘objects’ (inodes) An object is any file, folder, email. Any company with 10 employees quickly fills up their 50,000 items in about 1/2 a year…
Banks charge 100% interest per day on temporary loans disguised as ’service fees’ and can raid a persons bank account through a carefully designed ’service fee’ structure that can spiral a person’s income into the negative in a matter of days.
Not to sound paranoid, but, really, ‘it’s all around us and runs deep.’
June 22, 2009 at 10:44 am
The patient only ,,,!!! or there is a solution .. TOS make it your own! he .. he … he
June 22, 2009 at 10:28 am
I agree… it is a world gone mad with political correctness. I must say you do have it worse in the US. I remember a friend in Miami showing me the warning on his Jet Ski. It said something like “Warning – Jet Not To Be Used Sexually” – hmmm – the worse thing is … a lawyer must have been paid to come up that…
June 22, 2009 at 10:08 am
It is true though. Barely any one ever reads the terms of agreement contracts. It is kind of a shame that they spend all that time coming up with them just to be agreed to and passed on as quickly as possible.
June 22, 2009 at 10:03 am
I took a usability class with Chris Nodder in which he said he’d tried to convince clients to put an offer for $10 free at the end of every TOS and privacy agreement just to see if anyone ever found it.
Of course, his clients didn’t have the same sense of humor about it.
June 22, 2009 at 11:31 am
@SEO Services: I have little free offers all over my website. This let’s me know that 1. nobody is reading my blog, or 2. nobody finds anything I have to offer of any value.
But I’m new to the game, just a few months in. Longevity works for me, and I’m patient.
June 22, 2009 at 10:01 am
You bring up an excellent point here. With the information overload we’re inundated with daily, it’s hard to read every line on every piece of content (TOS and Privacy Policies included).
The old adage “never sign before you read” has been lost in the digital world. But can you blame the user?
Because the media landscape moves so quickly, I feel people skip over these types of things because they can barely even wait for a screen to load, let alone read 10 pages of legalese.
Is it our litigious society that has motivated companies to, as you say, cover their tracks legally?
I’m torn here on what to think. Looking forward to the other comments.
June 22, 2009 at 9:59 am
May be I’m the only person who read the Google Adsense Term Contract (even if I didn’t understand everything)
June 22, 2009 at 10:04 am
The disclosures are a necessary evil. There are too many people who are “sue” happy and will sue a major company for any reason.
However, I do agree that they are out of hand. Most people don’t read them anyway and even if they did, they would click “I agree to the terms and service” button anyway.
Any brilliant ideas on how to stop it?
June 23, 2009 at 5:43 am
Most people think it is a small matter and won’t think such a far way..
June 23, 2009 at 4:33 pm
I read the Facebook one, because I was told that they would have the rights to “exploit your images in any way they want”. And yeah, it’s true.