On last weeks ShoeMoney Show my guests were Jazette Pester and Steven Richter from Affiliate.com (formally CPA Empire).
During the show we discussed many topics facing affiliates. There is no legal mind in affiliate marketing who has had more experience then Steven Richter. He has defended high profile cases involving affiliate marketing dating back many years.
No matter what issues we were talking about during the show we kept coming back to one central point… That the industry needs a trade group/lobby/union. AND NEEDS IT BADLY!!!!
In the last 6 months I have had the CEO of every major affiliate network in the industry tell me that *I* need to step forward and lead this group and they pledge whatever money is needed.
Here is the deal… This has been tried before a couple times and gone down in flames. Affiliates do not trust each other. Am I wrong?
Look at the latest attempt with this performance marketing alliance. When I saw them pop up I called bullshit and was right. Did not take long to find out they had some commercial dependence. That was enough for me to say no thanks.
You can download the episode here or listen below:
[podcast]http://www2.webmasterradio.fm/shoemoney-show/podpress_trac/web/32/0/SHOE040909.mp3[/podcast]
About the author...
Jeremy Schoemaker – who has written 2416 posts on ShoeMoney.com.
Hi I am Jeremy Schoemaker and ShoeMoney.com is my blog. 99% of the post here are done by me but you will see others occasionally make guest posts. This blog is fun to write but for my day job I run several online companies.
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{ 42 comments… read them below or add one }
As long as everyone is concerned solely about themselves something like this is impossible.
Agreed.
I too agree.
have to say i agree with the comment above. This isn’t an industry filled with puppy dogs and rainbows where everyone is holding hands prancing around, this is war and the industry is a battlefield filled with vultures.
Disclosure: I am not payed by Shoemoney Media or by Jeremy Shoemaker.
Disclosure: Everything I write in this post is only my opinion and do not use it.
Disclosure: I have no medical or criminal records
Disclosure: I am an affiliate marketer
Huh I forgot what I wanted to say… man this is s*it and can’t survive… by the way it is not about Congress… it’s global market and they will hack you from Nigeria, Pakistan or Palestine… and will be out of your jurisdiction. You can ban this and that but it will always be forged.
At least if you ask me… affiliate marketing arena is bloody place but at least we fight with as in Roman times “strength and honor”… we know everybody is enemy if I do not win they will!
It isn’t a matter of trust but more so respect.
Certainly we need some strong syndicate or umbrella under which we can feel safe and crystal clear approach as well.
who knows if this will ever work? a system with a set of rules and regulations in the affiliate world is going to take some serious time to construct.
I don’t think its possible in the near future. People don’t follow rules and today you have everyone making their own affiliate industry.
You bring up a good point. Further saturation only makes it that much more difficult.
@zozan i agree with You
Very useful articles, interesting and informative.
problem between affiliate, they don’t trust each other. Then make your own affiliate empire. Sounds good enough…
yeah, i agree with that, making a group of affiliates ( strong group of affiliates ) would be great and useful
Sound, Idea but most Affiliate groups I fear will be very cut throat and Trust will be a big factor in this. Interesting, nonetheless.
More and more I’m dealing with legal issues with competitors and their affiliates.
I have spent thousands on lawyers dealing with frauds, cheats and downright criminals…problem is that most of them are operating out of Eastern Europe, Singapore and similar places.
It’s financially stupid to go after these types of people and they are MANY of the people who are really trashing the affiliate industry.
Companies are “going global” and allowing affiliates and vendors from all over the world to use their services without consideration that they get to play by their own rules.
If they get caught or shut down, they simply open new accounts under false info or start a new offshore company…most of their funds are direct deposited to a bank account so they are hard to track.
I’m sick of dealing with scummy affiliates and competition outside the US who do as they please.
And now, the FTC wants more regulations so US affiliates will have to jump through more hoops and get squeezed more.
Yes, the occasional high-profile douche in the US does deceptive things- but they usually get caught if they’re making any money.
Just like CANSPAM, spam is at an all time high but American small business can get destroyed if they forget to include an unsubscribe link or address.
Right now I’m dealing with an individual who continually sets up fake blogs trashing my product with false info in order to sell a competitors product as an affiliate. He has simply hosted everything offshore, he is outside the US and the affiliate company does not care.
I don’t see how things like this can be stopped when affiliate companies themselves seem to turn a blind eye to this type of thing.
To control the industry you need to control the affiliates with in it – and you can’t. So to have any amount of control with the market place we have to work in – is impossible.
Look at the Acai Berry supplements for example. Over 100 million in a year worth of business but do you think that an affiliate manager of someone who was just killing it in this niche would ever say “Stop” your sits are completely lying to people. No one gave a crap – its that simple.
Direct track has made it to easy for anyone to buy there own network so banning the bad affiliates is useless too because they will just get there own network.
No matter how big affiliate’s name is, I don’t think people will follow…
Afilliates know how other afilliates think. 
It’s going to be tough to get everyone on the same page. The sad part is how much more money could be made if everyone started firing from one front.
We’ll see I guess….
uhh…dave richter was the biggest spammer out there. most wanted list on spamhaus for email spammer…..give me a break
who the hell is dave richter ???
What history has shown us is… Not matter what the differences may be, people will unite for the better of the future- The Big Three. Let’s see these affiliate networks rise and unite and lead the affiliate industry to it’s equal rights.
Dammit, I mean’t Four!
Can’t imagine this happening in the near future
I hope so
Me too
Readers here have their own take regarding this matter. But for me, I have nothing to say now but to wait and see what will happen in the next few months or years.
So basically they wanted you to throw some money in a fire pit? That is some balderdash; I agree if there is no trust between them then it would be doomed to fail. Maybe failblog should put them on his site, lol.
Why are so many in the comments talking about ‘controlling’ affiliates and all that?
I hate to say this, but the reason you get lobbyists and whatnot is so that your interests(NOT being overly-regulated) are represented.
If we completely controlled affiliates and whatnot prior to getting lobbyists, that eliminates the entire friggin point.
On a side note, glad to see the PMA outted for what it is.
Shoemoney,
The answer is unequivocal no. It all comes down to one simple question – “what’s in it for me?” Answer that and you got yourself an affiliate group/lobby/union.
SAMPO answered that question and therefore got traction. For a relatively small fee you get a link (listed as one of the main reason to join), badge, and somewhat coherent industry related hub. Shit, just the link value and badge (validates ME as SEO expert) are worth it.
When comes to affiliates, most could care less about overpriced link and some BS badge. As a matter effect, I’d be out of my mind to join some group to share anything that makes me $. I’m sure you know EXACTLY what I’m talking about.
As far as I see it, there are only two conceivable paths for future affiliate unification:
First and less desirable path – Affiliates continue to soil the industry with bullshit asai and grant offers, consumers continue to get screwed. FTC (or equivalent) has no choice but to regulate the industry, similar to mortgage, construction or real estate.
Second – the one that answers “what’s in it for me?” – Affiliate networks unilaterally implement the “affiliate code of conduct” and market the shit out of it to merchants. The purpose of ACC is NOT to regulate the industry, rather to validate particular network or a group of networks as credible players in space. Conceivably, this method would enable networks to get more exclusive / higher paying offers for its publishers. To qualify for these exclusive/higher paying offers, publishers are required to participate in simple ACC workshops/webinars, perhaps pay small ACC certification fee and agree to its terms.
Anyways, I doubt this question can be answered through a blog comment. One thing for certain, unless industry as a whole can answer “what’s in it for me?” there can be no hope for any kind of unification.
The networks can’t be do that. That’s like the fox guarding the hen house. They would, and some/most currently do, break every rule in a decent “code of conduct” would list by simply offering the offers that get us into trouble n the first place.
Eliminate those types of offers and you’d eliminate 99% of the problems that draw FTC attention in teh first place.
You’d also eliminate a huge percentage of the industry since most o the offers with worthwhile payouts (CPA) are rebill type offers.
The problem is not the offers, rather the extent to which affiliates go to make a sale!
Fake blogs, bullshit testimonials, twisted celebrity endorsements… and the list goes on. If consumer is dumb enough to think acai will drop 10lbs in 10 days or Fed will give you free money I say LET THEM.
What I’m talking about is some basic level of “ethics” affiliates and networks should employ. If I’m a Realtor, I can’t make bs claims on property values… If I’m a mortgage broker, I’m required to disclose all costs… so why do we as affiliates feel it is our right to lie, cheat and deceit consumer to make a sale?
Shoemoney;
My legal background is in franchising and not affiliate marketing.
But, the establishment of a national trade association is predicated on a number of factors – an important one is the need to shape the legislature.
In franchising, up until I think the mid 60′s, the idea that you could tie products and services together was thought to be illegal on anti-trust grounds.
However, the International Association of Franchisees, really franchisors, lobbied hard for changes in the law which then permitted tie selling and the growth of what we see as business format franchises.
Affiliate marketing is facing some difficult legal challenges, and unless you take control of that agenda you will find yourself at the end of every AG’s quick hit lawsuit.
Take solace that the IFA was formed by only several large franchise systems, Dunkin Donuts being the main mover and shaker. Some 40 years later, it remains the powerhouse trade association, recently paying Bill Clinton’s speaking fee for their 2009 conference.
(Somewhat ironically, I am giving a talk at the end of this month at the American Association of Franchisees and Dealers about how the franchisees’ independent associations can use affiliate marketing techniques to increase their influence!)
What about this site, don’t we all fit in under advertising?
http://www.freelancersunion.org/index.html
Jeremy,
If you want to be part of the solution, join the Performance Marketing Alliance as a charter member and put yourself up to be the director. Since most of the networks are on board with the PMA you should be a “shoe” in!
Feel free to contact me or anyone else involved with the PMA with any questions you may have..
This idea and the problems associated with it reminds me of the domain space in many ways. with issues surrounding trust, transparency, scammers, spamemrs squatters,etc ..
There’s an organization started in the domain space called the Internet Commerce Association. . internetcommerce.org (dont ask me why they called it that).
I think you’ll face many of the same battles they have.
Another reason why I’m worried about stepping into affiliate marketing.
Agreed …
You would need big armour plated balls to take on such a roll, but it is needed!
One thing for sure is the affiliate industry has gotten huge over the past 5 years. Until the next big thing comes it looks like people will continue just pushing it.
How are Kroenke and Fiszman killing the club? ,
Well…what can you do…