I am always amazed at people who are quick to call out a niche as being a scam. For the longest time commercial ringtones was a huge target. And rightfully so. Just in the short time I was promoting ringtone offers there was an enormous amount of changes, lawsuits, and tons of compliance issues.
I was attacked a lot for promoting such offers but at the same time praised by others for actually giving step by step instructions on who to make money with affiliate marketing. While ringtones are nothing close to our companys overall percentage of income I still today do 20-50 leads a day organically through our old mobile properties. I run them all through Affiliate.com’s ringtones.net program. (which is still paying out and amazing $20 per lead btw..).
Lately ive been criticized by some people saying that ringtones.net is unethical. Now these are the same people promoting the US Grant and Acai Berry weight loss stuff.
As you know most of these grant and weight loss products work off a negative option billing system.. they charge you only $2 or so for shipping and handling (thats clearly labeled on the site) then somewhere in the terms of service they bury the real costs which is a monster monthly fee.
Like I have said many times… I am not judging anyone. The government will do that. They did it in ringtones to regulate the industry and keep deception out. I was investigated several times and also deposed in 2 separate cases. I always came out 100% clean following the rules set down by the companies in the FTC. Affiliates who were not compliant got busted. many affiliate companies had to pay millions of dollars. And even some affiliates got nailed to the tune of millions of dollars.
I have no doubt this will also happen in the Grant/Weightloss/Google make money products (that are not really google) industries as well.
When enough people complain that they were ripped off to their attorney generals they will investigate and they will make examples out of people.
Its actually already started. Earlier this week I was contacted by a lawyer representing the Geico cavemen who will be seeking damages for people running ads of them on Facebook to grant ads. He read about my case with the google money tree and wanted to know the proccess we went through to find the guilty party(s).
But here is the thing… it seems every person I have come across who judges peoples ethics and legalities generally 1) has no clue what they are talking about and 2) is often times doing as shady if not shadier stuff then the person they are judging.
Let me give you an example from just this week. I was contacted by a twitter user named ivetriedthat from ivetriedthat.com:
@IveTriedThat (IveTriedThat) says:
@shoemoney I hope you aren’t pushing grant ads. Those companies that sell that garbage are pure evil.
@IveTriedThat (IveTriedThat) says:@shoemoney we covered it here http://snipr.com/bf6mb 1. the gov’t doesnt give out free money 2. they have tons of hidden fees.
So clearly this person has judged those who are making money with Grant ads. He has even devoted a whole post to it here.
Intersting enough seems the person here (like many) throwing a rock actually lives in a glass house.
1) He making money from Google Adsense targeted at Grant Offers… the very offers he is bashing. But ohh those grant clicks pay so good!
2) See the green 125×125 cash crate ad? Lol this person is also is making cash off one of those incentivized programs where you complete offers for cash. These offers are lead generation things (like surveys) which collect your information in order to spam you with… grant offers…
So seriously… can we stop throwing rocks?
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January 5, 2010 at 4:43 pm
Interesting article, I’m going to recommend this to a couple of my mates
January 5, 2010 at 2:44 am
A lot of it is how sensitive people are to how something is presented. Some people’s skeptic meter jumps into high gear. I was on a forum and gave a blog post that pointed another blog about a free traffic tip. Someone was leary of that. They reasoned that it couldn’t possibly work if you were giving it away for free. If it was working, you would be using it. It might have boggled this person’s mind that people actually don’t mind sharing information.
July 10, 2009 at 4:48 am
I have no idea why they targeting me,who live at Far far away ,Hope there is some lawsuit to them for annoying me
March 6, 2009 at 8:41 am
Well it takes all kinds really. I suppose any niche can be considered a scam depending on who’s behind the site using that niche… I agree in that people are often to quick to judge things… but then again the old saying “don’t judge a book by it’s cover” has been around for a long time and is still in play today
March 4, 2009 at 11:33 am
Thats bad. These people should start behaving themselves
February 28, 2009 at 12:25 am
It’s absolutely not related with what he wants to promote. perhaps he could make BIG money using high paying keyword and i think he made his own disaster.
February 16, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Affiliate programs are great- you can make a little money or a LOT of money. It’s up to you
February 24, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Interesting. It makes me think twice about an email I wrote to some guy selling a product on Clickbank called the PowerSellerAssassin, marketed to eBay sellers. I was impressed at first, not by the product itself (I have no idea whether it’s any good or not) but by the sales pitch… I thought, wow, this guy’s got talent. But then I realized his pitch was effective in a way I wasn’t totally comfortable with, from an ethical perspective, so I wrote him this message. Maybe I shouldn’t have been so quick to judge, and just said to myself “hey, he’s good at what he does” and left it at that.
February 16, 2009 at 9:58 am
Even Google is throwing rocks, that’s my opinion…..look at how many marketers lost their game in PPC campaign
February 15, 2009 at 11:55 am
Promoting grants is jackpot,but only organic not adwords,cpc is a rocket in your wallet up to 9$,blah,but people trying to get even more Obama grants this is a “cool” niche..IMHO
February 14, 2009 at 4:00 pm
I thin it is impossible! but maybe people will soon understand that this is bad
February 12, 2009 at 9:02 am
Personally I don’t care who throws rocks at me if I am making money and it is legal and I follow the rules. In addition to what Shoe has observed, also the people “Throwing Rocks” are ususally the ones not making a dime.
February 11, 2009 at 9:11 pm
I think the rock throwing is their way of trying to eliminate the competition.
February 11, 2009 at 9:20 am
To become authoruty in specific niche in my opinion it’s need hard work of research and promo by contributing educational information and from time to time build up our reputation, from that point our network will become more power to our real traffic and can help us also monetizing our blog, take a look at http://plentyoffish.com, dating free service ,and no 1 in usa, ake US$ 10 million/per month after spent 5 years to promo.
February 10, 2009 at 11:40 pm
What’s frustrating is when your niche blog about the acai berry gets inundated with Google ads linking to acai berry weight loss scams over night. Unlike Collin from FeedFlare, I do have a problem promoting products in which the website is designed purposefully to push the visitor into signing up for a free trial while barely mentioning the actual monthly costs. I’ve seen pages with the actual cost buried pretty deep! When the primary objective of the offer is to profit from automatically charging credit cards where 9 times out of 10 the consumer isn’t expecting it, I see that as a scam. I’ve dropped affiliate companies for this reason, and Google Ads are next – I guess it’s about time anyways.
February 10, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Ohhh Shoe, you are so funny. Remind me to never get on your bad side. LOL. But you have a very very very good point.
February 10, 2009 at 11:17 am
It doesn’t hurt to run cashcrate. If you get like $400 a month, it can pay your gas bill.
February 10, 2009 at 2:19 am
Did you See this-> FTC Targets Weight-Loss Marketers’ Allegedly Bogus ‘Free’ Sample Offers
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2009/02/jab.shtm
February 10, 2009 at 12:14 am
I enjoy and envy your posts. My friend showed me this blog and I want to learn how to do what you do in Japan for my Japanese blog. I am trying to be a better affiliate, but it is harder in Japan or I am not doing it write. Please let me know if I can have a chance like you.
February 9, 2009 at 9:38 pm
What’s the best approach to handling accusations or criticisms? Do you take the time to reply or just ignore them?
February 9, 2009 at 6:50 pm
Whats everyone’s take on the latest acai berry juice mlm’s such as Monavie?
February 9, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Visit my money making webiste..Its up for sale too.Earns over $4000 per month
Take a peek
http://www.bourbonix.com/classifieds
Great site with lots of traffic
February 12, 2009 at 10:13 am
Oh really! OMFG – Will you take some items I have for the game diablo 2 ? They b werth $6,529.98 in realz life but ebay ban my stuff.
February 9, 2009 at 10:06 am
I’ve seen a lot of those grant advertisements on facebook and I just wonder if the other people are going to do anything about it like the caveman.
Well one of the pictures is Obama holding the check, could that be Treason?
February 9, 2009 at 9:24 am
These offers have to be doing great though on facebook, (the grant ones at least) I mean half the ad board is grant offers.
February 9, 2009 at 8:37 am
Great post. I wonder how that guy didn’t notice ads on his own page
February 9, 2009 at 8:28 am
promoting these products is fine as long as you dont do it by deception like most the people promoting acai with the same landing page
February 9, 2009 at 8:11 am
I totally agree J. I get a ton of shit for promoting cash advances, but to be honest, these items are 100x better than any negative billing offers.
February 9, 2009 at 4:52 am
adsense puts money in your pocket.The Idea was Awesome.
February 9, 2009 at 4:40 am
There is enough to go around for everyone looking to make money online.There are lots more buyers than sellers.
February 9, 2009 at 12:49 am
There is always pro and contra on what you are doing, just focus best on your judge ment, the rest will take care by it self
February 9, 2009 at 12:41 am
interesting post.. I have the same outlook on things, but I don’t worry about it anymore. That’s like I was telling the affiliate manager over at copeac the other day if I was to worry about what every one said on the internet I’d be in a whole world of hurt.
February 9, 2009 at 12:32 am
I use to wonder if some offers were scams. Which of course I know there not now, but people do have to be careful what offers they do promote. From my experience some offers convert better through Yahoo then what they do Google. Then there is offers that will convert better through Facebook and Myspace. I have also had affiliate managers lie to me in the past saying they had people promoting through PPC when it would be next to impossible to profit through PPC for that certain offer because of the click cost. Come to find out these affiliate were monetizing other traffic sources. There again some offers might doing fabulous through PPC ad words.
February 8, 2009 at 11:39 pm
It’s like when they called you out on belowabuck.com – great idea btw.
February 8, 2009 at 11:38 pm
I agree with Jay there. Internet is swarming with people that are making money from internet but don’t want others to do the same.
February 8, 2009 at 11:16 am
I think it’s rich that there is so much hypocrisy on the web (and in real life for that matter). In addition to the scenario you described @shoemoney, the ones I like are the ones who think “all salespeople are evil”, yet they want you to go to their commerce site and buy stuff!
I’m like, what the hell is all that about?!
February 8, 2009 at 10:36 am
I wish more people think twice like this when deciding take certain type of money .
February 8, 2009 at 9:47 am
Thats funny that guy says those ads are evil yet he has them on his own site. I guess he hasn’t noticed his own ads on his site.
February 9, 2009 at 8:36 am
If you give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe they aren’t bright enough to figure out how to use the editorial controls. No matter how easy or intuitive a product is, some idiot out there will have trouble using it.
February 8, 2009 at 9:33 am
It’s unfortunate, but lots of people get really slimy when it comes to making money. Self-regulation doesn’t work unfortunately….it’s gotta come from the gov’t.
February 8, 2009 at 9:09 am
Jeremy
What is even more funny to me is “the auto charge programs” for weight loss have been around for a while right. So – people look down at us for promoting what they call scams but in reality if the public would actually READ before they buy they would see everything is spelled out for them. I have no guilt promoting these offers in any way shape or form.
February 8, 2009 at 2:57 am
I believe you should be able to go on a site that you trust and not be bombarded with these terrible ads. Especially the weight loss and grant ones which do nothing but put you in massive debt because of the hidden costs
February 8, 2009 at 12:34 am
Well that person got a coveted shoemoney link which is cool. Really capitalism is highly unethical. Yet if a person really needs money then who cares. Most everyone who is not loaded is primarily driven by money. The ads on my sites are not the best and i would never do them but people do and i need the money. In some ways its them or me.
February 7, 2009 at 11:24 pm
haha lol…
shoemoney is awesome.
Don’t throw rocks if your living in a glass house…
February 7, 2009 at 11:18 pm
I think the lesson here is don’t throw shoes! at the ShoeMoney!
February 8, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Suddenly a visual of George Bush ducking shoes has popped into my brain, lmao!
February 12, 2009 at 2:44 am
You got good sense of humour … I must say. lollzzz
February 7, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Okay, I just HAD to post this… because this is completely ridiculous. And the fact that no one has called on Jeremy for this is even MORE ridiculous.
The Google Adsense ads are CONTEXTUALLY GENERATED from Google, obviously because the article is ABOUT government grants. He has not SPECIFICALLY placed them there.
That Cash Crate thing is NOT a scandalous survey program, you can go through it and you will see. And I know someone who’s made quite a lot of money from it.
Deliberately promoting an obvious SCAM product, KNOWINGLY that it is a scam and cheating people out of their money and having an ad show up from Ad Sense which was contextually generated based from the text is NOT the same thing.
I think you’re smart enough to know this Jeremy.
February 7, 2009 at 9:12 pm
You just gave me a new idea for an article–I previously never heard of that weight loss product. Thanks!
February 7, 2009 at 8:11 pm
I live so far away from the place that apm me alot about grants ads at my email.,I always delete them “all”I dont where they got my email and I have no idea why they targeting me,who live at Far far away ,Hope there is some lawsuit to them for annoying me with time to delete Them ‘ALl”
February 7, 2009 at 7:15 pm
Were ringtone affiliates being busted because they were advertising them as “free”?
February 7, 2009 at 7:02 pm
It is very amusing, albeit sad, to read how people are using texts, instead of numbers, in their fine prints for hidden monthly charges. In the 90s, the adult websites started the trend of hidden monthly charges but I don’t remember them using texts in fine prints.
February 7, 2009 at 6:58 pm
I don’t really agree with your premise here.
It is the blog post authors opinion that federal grant offers are scams. That doesn’t suddenly mean he has a moral obligation to disable all advertisements on his site for grant offers. The point is it’s his opinion, and just because he chooses to allow people to advertise opposing views on his site doesn’t mean he is throwing rocks.
As another example, lets say you wrote a blog post in support of Barack Obama in this last election. You are running Adsense and are getting some Mccain ads showing up on your site. Now do you have to go block those urls in Adsense? Of course not, your blog post is your opinion and is totally separate from the financial aspect of the site. Just like newspapers have separate editorial and advertising divisions, which can end up advertising a product they criticized on their same page.
February 8, 2009 at 12:18 pm
I agree with you 100%, it’s just like the paid commercials that dominate tv in the early morning on the weekends, “The views expressed in this advertisement do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of the station, etc.”
Disclosure is all it’s about.
February 10, 2009 at 10:09 pm
This post is good for a number of reasons. look at all of the people who posted lengthy discussion on their opinion. if Jeremy posted with that intent I think it shows mad bloging skill. good point though MouthyGirl ..
February 7, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Being a marketer is a fine balance. If you’re in this industry you’re going to have your hands (directly or indirectly) in products you may not agree with via adsense, networks, etc.
We’re no different than big TV networks that allow those shady infomercials and drug ads to run during their shows. And no one runs around calling ABC or NBC a scam for doing so. But we as smaller marketers have stones tossed our way.
There are a lot ads that Google allows on my site via adsense that I don’t agree with but at the same time they pay my bills.
So like Steve I do my best to educate people about some of these offers and let them decide if it’s something to pursue.
With that said, Jeremy is right. People need to take personal responsibility. You have to do your due diligence and make decisions based on that.
I know I’ve personally tried offers people claimed were scams and experienced none of the shady claims. Nowadays people label anything a scam for the slightest disagreement. I’ve had bad experiences with Jetblue and Microsoft and I don’t run around calling them a scam. Or if I couldn’t make money with a program I don’t call it a scam. I failed to make money and that’s it. It’s my fault not the company. But people are afraid to look at themselves in the mirror and accept their short comings. And that’s probably a lot of the reason why we’re in the financial mess we’re in.
So we all have to admit our roles in this. I don’t think there’s a perfect solution. But I do applaud people like Steve that are trying to educate people about certain offers. It may be a little aggressive and to some hypocritcial because of the ads on the site. But again he’s just doing his best to provide balance.
At the end of the day if someone read his post and then clicked on one of the adsense ads promoting the grants and still went a long with it. We can only hope that they have a better understanding of what they’re getting into. If they don’t read the post and go into grants blindly then that’s on them. And at least Steve knows that he did his best to educate these folks.
I think Steve has illustrated he’s man enough to admit some of his own faults. I know he and I have disagreed in the past and he’s always man’ed up. You can’t really hate on a guy that is trying his best to educate people.
Just my two cents, for what it’s worth. At least we’re able to have this discussion like grown men and not little kids as often seen on so many blogs.
Eddy
February 8, 2009 at 9:14 am
I agree – the word scam – is used way to often and is starting to feel like more of a “Hello” then a warning.
February 7, 2009 at 5:51 pm
Oops I meant to say i do over 500 grant offers a month it does pay well and I do enjoy…. God bless the internet
February 7, 2009 at 5:50 pm
55
February 7, 2009 at 4:39 pm
Funny post.. even more funny and I agree with you.. Do reasonable people sign up for these offers anyway?
February 9, 2009 at 11:38 am
I know I wouldn’t. When they look really cheesy I may look at it but never click on it.
February 7, 2009 at 4:35 pm
I’ve always thought your ‘Monkey House’ post was one of the best business blog posts I’ve ever read. This is just more of the same. What would you do if your mom called to tell you that her money problem is solved…she’s going to get a government grant?
February 7, 2009 at 3:28 pm
+REP.
Seriously… so true.
February 7, 2009 at 3:08 pm
I, too, am annoyed by the grant ads. And while I may look like a hypocrite because my Adsense ads do include grants, I make a staunch effort to block any of those ads I see.
February 7, 2009 at 3:02 pm
I still see that google money tree ad on facebook and it is very deceiving cause if people do not cancel in 7 days they are billed like 80$ , as far as cash crate goes thats the bottom of the barrel mlm , which is surveys and offers and is based upon a referral system. If your a part of cash crate do not waste your time with it.
February 7, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Jeremy, though Steve might be profiting from the grant ads, his post is nevertheless informative.
I dont think any reasonable person will read the post and then proceed to signing up for the grant, – without knowing what they are signing up for.
February 7, 2009 at 3:02 pm
I dont think any reasonable person actually signs up for that anyway… What ever happen to just personal responsibility and common sense?
February 10, 2009 at 10:02 pm
Young Money did a interview with the crazy guy in the question mark suit jumping around on late night TV. they started the interview by didn’t try his product. and it’s plastered with Grant ads. LOL. I think you can get away with calling people out when they do deserve it. however, as a new site I would just look like a jerk especially in my niche. I’m trying to develop credibility. good post.
February 7, 2009 at 2:51 pm
I agree the grant offers are pretty shady, similar to the survey offers that claim you can make a bunch of money doing surveys.
But I don’t think there is anything wrong with the “make money with Google” type of products, unless of course a specific offer is making bogus claims. But these products are basically just teaching people how to do affiliate marketing via PPC and/or make money via adsense, so most of these offers are pretty legit if you ask me.
The feds can’t do jack about these kinds of offers. What they are going to do is go after the acai berry people because ALL of the acai berry offers make ridiculous claims. Acai berry does not help you lose weight, it is simply an antioxidant. Thus these offers ARE making ridiculous and BOGUS claims that the feds WILL go after.
February 7, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Thanks for the links shoe
The post wasn’t intended to judge those from pushing grant offers. It was intended to protect those who might sign up for it without knowing what they get themselves into.
I’ve also tried keeping up with blacklisting grant ads from appearing on our site. It’s kind of hard considering there are more and more each day.
February 7, 2009 at 2:27 pm
“@shoemoney I hope you aren’t pushing grant ads. Those companies that sell that garbage are pure evil.”
how is that not judging? and also you are profiting from people signing up to them.
February 7, 2009 at 2:36 pm
I suppose you’re right. I definitely sound like an asshole there. It wasn’t my intention though and I do apologize.
I can’t deny that I am indirectly profiting off of them, but I don’t think there are going to be a lot of people who read that post, click on an ad, then proceed to sign up.
February 7, 2009 at 10:40 pm
@Steve
So you’re just defrauding the advertisers then by knowingly sending them clicks that won’t convert?
Your logic train has derailed.
February 8, 2009 at 9:57 am
Yea, that’s not defrauding advertisers.
February 7, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Ya know – this was my biggest issue with breaking into affiliate marketing. I hated the idea of doing niche marketing of products that I had never tried. I see the biggest problem of this with Clickbank products.
Now – I find myself recommending affiliate products that I use, love, and highly recommend. Or – I spend some money, buy the product, try it out, and give an honest review – not just a ‘get rich by rehashing the sales page’ review.
Maybe it will be slower for me. Maybe not. We will see.
February 7, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Same here. However, surprising thing is that I’ve found products that I’ve used sell a lot better, probably because I promoted it a lot better after experience.
February 11, 2009 at 12:06 pm
I am with you Will, the honest way is best and I too mostly promote products that I myself use and merchants I buy from, it’s the best way!
February 7, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Very good point and it’s popping up more recently. Too many people want to make that quick buck instead of sustainable income, they jump the gun, promote incorrectly and get nailed in the end.
February 7, 2009 at 2:31 pm
I love these two points: 1) has no clue what they are talking about and 2) is often times doing as shady if not shadier stuff then the person they are judging
its so true, and not even limited to the affiliate world – this is true in practically any segment you might choose to look at
February 8, 2009 at 7:54 am
do you still prosper from nextpimp? Thanks.
February 9, 2009 at 8:32 am
Of course, they might have achieved their goal: A follow backlink from a PR6 site, a brief site review, and a link to their twitter accnt. Its like sending in fake hate mail to try to get on a website’s hatemail page.
February 9, 2009 at 10:00 am
Yeah it is getting really bad out there. Shoe brought up the Geico caveman facebook thing and I’ve noticed them on facebook as well. If you look close enough you can tell that the check hand isn’t even the caveman’s hand. If they are going to cheat, make it more of a challenge of people finding out.
February 9, 2009 at 9:58 am
spammer