Email marketing is something that is pretty new to me. I would say really new. It all started with that newsletter =P. Its pretty powerful stuff though. Anyway first I started doing some stuff with aweber but noticed some companies using Bronto. So I thought I would give them a shot for some things. I am pretty happy with them so far. They have a very cool API and they actually answer the phone when you call (so does aweber).
I really like there deliverability. It seems to be about 2x that of aweber. They also have a lot better and easier to read graphs.
But again I am a total email newb. I would love to hear what email services you use and who you would recommend.
About the author...
Jeremy Schoemaker – who has written 2415 posts on ShoeMoney.com.
Hi I am Jeremy Schoemaker and ShoeMoney.com is my blog. 99% of the post here are done by me but you will see others occasionally make guest posts. This blog is fun to write but for my day job I run several online companies.
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I still haven’t touched on email marketing yet – but it’s on the to do list!! Email… the final frontier – lol!!
why not till ??
Email marketing rocks.
I know only about aweber.
Thanks for showing bronto, let me compare the features.
Aweber is pretty good, but bronto seems to have a lot of features
I also haven;t any such service..Never thought about it using..
Email Marketing Great Help, all the latest news you have you can just simply email them out =)
Email marketing is a dicey subject that I for one am nervous to foray into. There is such a huge amount of spam floating around, and you hagve to give seriously good value for money to stand out in a cluttered email inbox.
I’ve always used aWeber. What’s your thought on using an inhouse solution with your own metrics?
..additional thought: or what about open source alternatives written in PHP or something – as opposed to writing your own from scratch.
I have used phplist successfully several times – it was a perfect inhouse option and full of many features. I highly recommend it as an OS solution if thats what you are after.
in todays climate its pretty much impossible unless you have a fulltime person dedicated to email deliverability
its difficult to do in house, I had an assistant a few years ago that would deal with maintaining email lists and sending email for me. She would send out a newsletter to over 10,000 opt in emails, sending them 200 emails at a time so our ISP wouldn’t block them. anyway it took a full day to send out emails to just our list!
Agree. It is pretty much impossible, mostly because of deliverability issues. You will quickly get your IP address blacklisted and you will have terrible email deliverability. Aweber works but might not have the pretty, easy to use interface that some people desire. Check out Vertical Response, they have good product that is affordable.
Another thing, email IS a full time job, even with an ESP like Vertical Response or Bronto or whomever. Anyone can send out a crap email, the most successful send out emails that are well thought out with landing pages and analytics. It is not easy but it is still our most consistent and effective form of marketing.
Even to add more… I am about to stop doing our email period and switch to gmail for your domain.
@Jeremy – Clearly, I am biased as I work for Bronto, but I’d agree. That is the reason why ESPs exist. Truthfully, the sending part is (relatively) easy. It is the support/client services/consulting that is a bit more challenging. Also, when you start to send larger volumes of mail, maintaining relationships with ISPs and others in the deliverability space becomes hard to do on your own.
dj
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DJ Waldow
Director of Best Practices & Deliverability
Bronto Software, Inc
djwaldow: twitter, AIM, MSN, Gtalk…
migrating from one solution to another might be a problem
Hey Jeremy!
MindComet offers email marketing as one of our service offerings. Id be happy to set up a time to discuss with you our system’s capabilities.
- Kelly
Checking it..
Shoe,
I submitted our shirt for free t-shirt friday, and you posted it a few weeks ago. If anyone is looking for a less expensive alternative, but more robust software solution, check us out.
Thanks,
Justin
aWeber all the way.
I use MailChimp. It’s pricey, but it’s really good.
Actually mailchimp seems to be one of the cheapest.
I’ve heard lots of good things about MailChimp. I do know they have one of the best whitepapers on formating HTML for emails. But I have yet to use them.
I would wonder what are some other options that you have found to be cheaper if you think this “cheap” option is pricey!! Please let us know – share the wealth of knowledge!
The more focused the software, the higher the costs involved!
I work with Yesmail, and they have remarkably good service and help with creating email campaigns. Mainly for high end Fortune 500 types, but they also have a cheaper version Yesmail Direct.
I use delivra.com and icontact.com, I contact has easier to read graphics but delivra is more powerful.
I have used constant contact which I liked, Icontact used it too but its too much of a hassle in my opinion did not really like it. So this Bronto is this compatible with feedburner?
Haven’t used Bronto. In fact, they seem new to the scene. I have used constant contact and get response. I hear mailchimp is fantastic too. All are the same tier as aweber (and I assume Bronto).
@Payday – Actually Bronto has been in the email business since 2002. I think we’ve done a better job recently in making our product/brand/service more known (blog, twitter, traditional marketing, conferences, etc).
dj
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DJ Waldow
Director of Best Practices & Deliverability
Bronto Software, Inc
djwaldow: twitter, AIM, MSN, Gtalk…
@DJ – thanks for the clarification. I agree your brand presence is increasing. Before Jeremy posted this I started noticing Bronto in search and on twitter. Kudos on what’s obviously becoming a successful marketing plan!
@jeremy
Thanks for your kind words about Bronto. We are thrilled to hear that you are “pretty happy” but would of course love to have you be “ecstatic.” Ha.
As far as being new to email marketing, there are plenty of valuable resources out there. Bronto’s Blog – http://blog.bronto.com/ is one of my favorites (of course). However, there are tons of others with incredible content.
I know you mentioned Aweber. Justin Premick writes some great stuff on their blog. Also, Kelly of MindComet (she commented above, avatar is pic of her with hair waving in the wind) co-posts on their blog with Bryan Q. Great stuff.
We’d love to help in any way we can. Let me know – many other great email marketing related blogs to point you to, if you’d like.
Congrats on #11: http://www.invesp.com/2008/top-100-marketers-of-2008-49-to-11.html
Hope to hear from you soon,
dj
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DJ Waldow
Director of Best Practices & Deliverability
Bronto Software, Inc
djwaldow: twitter, AIM, MSN, Gtalk…
I would recommend Listrak. I’ve used it extensively and it is always the first email marketing service provider I recommend. They are a smaller company with incredible capabilities, and very personalized communication. It’s also very easy to get on the phone with any particular person you would like to talk to in the company. They also will work with you to help personalize and customize your email campaigns for each individual person on your list.
I’ve also used MailChimp- a bigger company, but I like them a lot too. Reasonably priced.
I think it should also be said that the main reason many bloggers and affiliate marketers use aweber is because they have an awesome referral program, not not because they have awesome deliverability.
You think a pro like you would have been email marketing for sometime now. It surprises me that the newsletter was fairly new.
i was surprised too. the newsletter is a hit though
Ye i was also surprised by post…
Read Between the lines
Like so many things in MMO, following the crowd has its advantages. Aweber has the crowd and following, so with that is support and general understanding outside of Aweber proper. Meaning there are a lot of blog posts and forum threads about Aweber. Bronto or another email service would be on the outside looking in. They may even be better, but without the following, hard to make a case to make a switch. Kind of like WordPress versus Drupal/Joomla, the crowd gives WordPress the advantage, even if the better case can be made for the other CMS.
Not sure what happened to my original comment (hmmm), so here goes round #2, with somewhat of a different angle.
———————
@jeremy
Thanks for your kind words about Bronto. We are thrilled that you are “pretty happy” but would love to hear that you are “very ecstatic.” (We’ll get you there!).
As far as resources to learn more about email marketing, I would of course recommend the Bronto Blog – http://blog.bronto.com/. However, Justin Premick of Aweber (who you mention above) has a great blog with killer content. I also read MindComet’s Email Marketing Voodoo Blog – http://www.emailmarketingvoodoo.com/, penned by Kelly (she commented above – avatar is picture of her with hair blowing in the wind).
I can point you to other great blogs if you’d like. Just let me know.
Also, congrats on #11: http://www.invesp.com/2008/top-100-marketers-of-2008-49-to-11.html
Look forward to hearing back,
dj
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DJ Waldow
Director of Best Practices & Deliverability
Bronto Software, Inc
djwaldow: twitter, AIM, MSN, Gtalk…
i have used constant contact and ihouse has a product for real estate agents I use to use a few years ago. currently i’m kind of struggling to find a service that will let me import my database!
So this post has come at a great time for me, evidently not only can you build great useful website you can read the minds of the people on your “daily comment winner” contest.
I was using email newsletters way back in the real estate hay day and would sell dozens of units in a day. But ive fallen off the wagon with it when it comes to my other projects.
Tried aweber once , didnt understand it
well may be because iam not into email marketing. They sent me a nice welcome letter and pricing info via post and email!
Email Marketing great way to keep in touch with your clients you should give it a try.
you need a good reader base, else people ll label you as spam
We currently use Lyris HQ and Vertical Response. Have used Campaigner and Aweber in the past. Lyris is good, lots of flexibility but it is pretty pricey. We are actually looking for a new ESP but we are not ready to jump into a new contract.
The most important thing seems to be finding an ESP with a good reputation (doesn’t work with shady clients) to improve deliverability. We have a dedicated IP address with Lyris, which also helps in theory.
Shoe or DJ, can you share any sort of pricing information? Do you require a contract or can we pay as we go? This is actually one of the reasons that I like Vertical Response (and it is simple to use).
Thanks!
@Scott – I can certainly discuss pricing with you. I’d rather not give out specifics on this blog, but feel free to contact me (details below). We have several different editions – each with their own pricing models. For the most part, our pricing is based on a CPM model (similar to how most other ESPs price). Basically, the more emails you send, the more you pay but at a lower per email rate.
I agree with you somewhat on your comment about “the most important thing seems to be finding an ESP with a good reputation (doesn’t work with shady clients) to improve deliverability.” However, for the most part reputation (and deliverability) is controlled by the sender, especially if you are sending through a dedicated ip. Great post by Return Path – a few years old, but still very very true: http://www.returnpath.net/blog/2006/12/esps-and-deliverability-what-t.php
Look forward to connecting.
dj
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DJ Waldow
Director of Best Practices & Deliverability
Bronto Software, Inc
djwaldow: twitter, AIM, MSN, Gtalk…
Thanks DJ. Please contact one of my employees, Mark at trainsignal.com. I would prefer less sales pitch and more facts…not to be rude/blunt but but we are fairly happy with Lyris, just looking for a cheaper alternative and not contract (if possible).
Of course, your own deliverability is going to be affected by your own email practices…if you dupe people into signing up for your list and you then send them lots of “salesy” emails, you are going to get a lot of complaints and your email deliverability will suffer. However, if you are a “clean” emailer who plays by the book you can still suffer if you choose an ESP that works with clients who are a little on the shadier side (assuming a shared IP address, which is the default setup for most ESPs).
Big fan of 1SC (1shoppingcart). Easy to use interface, campaign tracking, etc etc, plus merchant services.
Worth a shot, they do a 30day trial for like $3-5 i think.
Never really was a fan of aweber.
I actually pay for a account at 1shoppingcart but they seem to have some deliverable issues so i don’t use them.
Yeah, I’ve noticed that as well from time to time. I used aWeb in thepast but the interface design was just horrid, has it updated?
Should I give it another go?
I think he just wanted to give it a shot and see how it goes.
What are the geo-targeting capabilities of these email blasts? I’m a web advertising rep and we’re currently limited to age, gender, and zip code. What are the other options to narrow down your list?
best thing you could have done was to get away from aweber. they are not even on the radar of companies like bronto. improvement in deliverability doesn’t surprise me in the least and is a common occurance for people leaving aweber. other ones are lyris/elabls, exact target, responsesys, listrak, blue hornet
Talk about newb! I just got hooked up with Aweber this month, but am always willing to check out the “others”. Thanks for the heads up.
mailchip is a good one!
Wow I really have to get into gear with my email marketing!! It looks like im missing out HUGE times here. With my upcoming ebook, and networking website, it will be a great tool to promote with!!
Sheesh … bronto sure seems overpriced compared to aweber and I’ve never had deliverability issues with aweber so why would exactly would I switch?
no idea why you would switch if you have no problems… lol
why’d you switch Jeremy? Did you have deliverability issues with aweber or ?
Smaller lists could probably get by on aweber. But I’m going to assume that Shoemoney media has a pretty sizable list.
I had a client you constant contact before.
Looks like we need to try Bronto,
Thanks for the tip.
I had constant contact before its not that great going to try bronto see how it is
I use GetReponse. I’ve never had any problems. They use a double opt-in process where subscribers sign up, then have to click a verification email saying they wanted to sign up. Its $18 a month.
I’m a fan of GetResponse too. I really like their co-reg products that allow me to build my lists easily, cheaply, and legitimately (double opt in). Pretty satisfied with GR as one of my solutions.
But GR seems to have its limitation and aweber gives you better control over your campaign.
Never bumped into any limitations with them that can be solved with a little extra cash. My lists with them are pretty clean, double-opt, newsletters os deliverability is pretty solid. I also keep the list trimmed, another reason why I don’t hit limits.
I have created a new website for posting Classified Ads in Singapore – it’s at http://www.sgice.com. Do you think Email Marketing can be used to promote a classified site?
I don’t plan to have any newsletters, and don’t want to spam too. So how can email marketing be used to build more user base, or promote the classified site?
Please advice.
Thanks,
Monika
There are really 2 divisions of email marketing. The dirt cheap services ($10-$20 range) and the more expensive services $100 / month. The most common cheap services are Constant Contact, iContact, and aWeber. Of the higher end services, the ones I see the most are Exact Target and Bronto. It really just comes down to deliverability. So if you’re satisfied with your deliverability rate with your dirt cheap service, please don’t switch.
@Krill –
I respectfully disagree with your comments – “It really just comes down to deliverability. So if you’re satisfied with your deliverability rate with your dirt cheap service, please don’t switch.”
As I mentioned in comment above, deliverability is for the most part controlled by the sender. Aside from infrastructure and offering best practice advice around deliverability, the ESP has little control as to whether or not your emails will get delivered (inbox or otherwise). Great article by the deliverabilty gurus, Return Path: http://www.returnpath.net/blog/2006/12/esps-and-deliverability-what-t.php
Over the past year, I’ve seen more and more marketers changing ESPs with the goal of improving deliverability. For the most part, if your deliverability sucks at one ESP and you do nothing to change your list growth processes or other components that are critical to a good reputation, you’ll find that your deliverability will still be terrible.
dj
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DJ Waldow
Director of Best Practices & Deliverability
Bronto Software, Inc
djwaldow: twitter, AIM, MSN, Gtalk…
@DJ Well said and very true. A new ESP doesn’t offer you the holy grail of email deliverability. The BEST thing you can do is focus on being a good marketer…sending email to people with VERY useful content that they expect and want. See Seth Godin, Permission Marketing for more details.
Also, pricing is very much dependent upon the volume of email that you send and the service level that you expect. Aweber, Get Response, Vertical Response, etc are great for starting out and getting your feet wet in email marketing. They also seem to be very scaleable and allow for growth of your list into the tens of thousands. When you switch over to a higher level ESP and you are sending more volume, you will be spending over a $1000/month, all depending upon how much volume you are sending.
i actually see the exact opposite. simply changing from a lower end esp with a bad reputation, etc. sends your deliverability through the roof. sometimes it is the esp with the problem. of course the end user can always do things better to improve in most cases.
you made me persuade..will try the bronto..
I didn’t know about Bronto, great post… It’s always good to look away from what most people use…
I am new to this case. I listen and choose the best. -)
I am new to email marketing too. where do i start?
Try searching google for “email marketing”?? haha
I’m new too, hahaha
I chose the best too.
I personally feel Aweber is easier to work with having personally tried both. Organisation and management becomes really easy there.
I use GetReponse .-)
The thing is these programs can be expensive and the free ones are not always reliable.
I understand the value of email marketing. Selling online its a must. However, I have not set up anything for my blog. I need to start on something. Will take a look at what Bronto has to offer
I use aWeber and find it very good and constantly improving. Oddly though, despite several requests that their reports include totals for subscribers they never make the simple change. So, if you get a report showing number of new subscribers THIS MONTH, the report cannot also show the TOTAL subscribers to the list as well. It would be so easy for them but every time I email I get a “we’ll consider it” answer and no action. The other big problem is for those who collect subscribers at trade shows – they cannot be added to Aweber without being sent a confirmation email and having to opt in (again) and this results in a huge loss as well as complaints from people who subscribe via a paper form that we are ‘bothering’ them when they have already agreed to subscribe by completing the paper form to subscribe. Spam is a huge problem and this understandably motivates their policy but some way of certifying clients needs to be thought of rather than just saying “no”. To be very fair, I see this is also a problem with other services (eg: this holds back Feedburner from allowing existing subscribers to be added to their broadcast email feature too).
Haven’t used Bronto. In fact, they seem new to the scene.
I live in Durham, NC and have personally visited the Bronto offices several times. It’s a great company with great people. We’re also lucky to have iContact.com in Durham, as well. A lot of email services are pretty similar. What you really want is good service when you need it. Both of these companies are staffed by competent, friendly people, and both companies are very active in the community.
I am currently using RatePoint right now, it could use some work but it seems to be going good as of right now. They are trying to create new templates I think 2 a week or was it a month. I used to use a yahoo mailer but it seemed to be more expensive than it was worth.
Thanks
Mr. School Fundraising Ideas
Medium to large companies should employ a more robust email marketing company like Boca Networks.
only if you have a good reader base, and if you are unique, else it is called spamming