When Kevin Ryan came onto the scene as SES’s “new Danny Sullivan”, I think many previous SES fans were kind of curious to see what exactly he would do with it. It had been mentioned that Kevin was going to put his own brand on SES, and well, he has done exactly that.
Now, since I don’t know Kevin very well other than in passing at SES, it is hard to really say what kind of person he is. But he has certainly managed to put his own special, uh, spin on things, to say the least. A spin that has left many shaking their heads and wondering what he’s on.
Now, it is hard to kind of explain what happened in one particular session today – SEO Rehab, so I will let the following live blogging recaps and Twitter.
First, the ever popular and shoe-stylin Lisa Barone:
Kevin spends way too much time talking about rehab and other psychedelic things. He’s making me uncomfortable.
Hmmm… psychedelic things.
Kevin Ryan, for as much as I love him, has lost his mind. He’s “editing” Dave Naylor’s PowerPoint signs with things like “Boser is scary smart”, “Gray freaks me out a little”, and other such things. And then black hat SEO gets mentioned and Kevin stops the conversation saying he doesn’t want a blogger to say that he held a black hat panel.
Yes, Kevin Ryan actually spent a good portion of the time leaning on the podium and editing a powerpoint to spam himself (Twitter, Facebook and Linked In) while ignoring the panelists. TopRankBlog got a great photo.
Another few tweets:
SEO Rehab Session…so far, we’re talking about cannabis & chocolate cake (by @toddmintz)
going to hell in a handbasket quickly… (by @barbaraboser)
Later, in his next panel, Facebook, Feeds and Microblogging, he mocks one of his speakers with this.
@andybeal is a pain in my butt
Hitting up Summize, there are more comments about how Kevin Ryan is acting in his sessions.
That was way too long of an introduction from Kevin Ryan at #SESSJ. This is not about him., Be quiet (by @JohnWEllis)
@KevinMRyan is running his second sassy panel in a row… (by @kristenmc)
I don’t know about you, but it is kind of scary that this is the face of Search Engine Strategies. It makes me wonder if SES going to continue to be a cutting edge search conference as it was under Danny Sullivan or is Kevin Ryan going to take it downhill with what he perceives to be “humor” with cannabis and psychedelics. When you have bloggers publicly stating their embarrassment and uncomfortable-ness, those are the impressions that the masses of readers are going to be left with, and will help make future conference attendees go with SMX or PubCon over SES, because more than a few attendees and sponsors have said this will be the last SES they attend, which clearly makes you wonder how much of that decision is purely based upon the behavior of Kevin Ryan at the conference so far this week.
Maybe others think this kind of behavior of the person supposedly is in charge is good and brings up the college party atmosphere from a more stuffy corporate impression it had at SES New York. But if people want to party, they can go to PubCon. What will make people come back to SES after this whole impression people are left with.
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How I wish I was on that conference too. It’s sad to know that some people are not happy with the outcome of the conference.
Actually I was attracted by the title, good article, well.
Nope me either never heard of him.
6. (sorry, last one) — I think everyone should be reading @Lisa Barone’s comment, to understand what is really going on here. Is it professional to misrepresent and distort what really happened? Who said what?
5. The geeks vs. suits distinction is getting real old. Surely we can do better than trying to paint 5,000 people as “suits” or lionizing “geeks” carte blanche.
A few points about this ad hominem assault. Maybe about four or five come to mind.
1. This won’t be the first or the last time a person in this industry has made a drug reference or two from the podium. A prominent SEMPO person did this a couple of years back in the middle of trying to sign up new members. It isn’t to my taste mainly because I worry what people who aren’t privy to the inside joke will think. If you do further research, you usually find out a lot more about the joke-tellers, and that they are working long hours in a building role, and have much more depth than you realize.
2. Yes Kevin’s humor is an acquired taste. I am often surprised by the reactions, but for me (as I’ll tell anyone), it actually is my type of humor so I often forget that it doesn’t necessarily work for everyone. A quip here and there isn’t the whole story. This is style. I challenge anyone to show that there has not been immense substance to back it up. The SES’s — admittedly, they lack Danny as no one needs to have explained to them — have held up well and have been stimulating and progressive on a number of levels. It is a team effort, as it has always been.
3. @JustinCook: As Program Chair of SES Toronto, I worked with Kevin and the team to put together this year’s program. There are a variety of constituencies to address and the search for the right balance is ongoing. For every “hard core” individual who feels they didn’t get “new” information, there are 50 brand new people asking for the core material. As for your claim that “no speaker” took it seriously, I find that claim to be so remote from credibility as to need no response. But seriously: at every SES, we solicit specific feedback about sessions and speakers. Toronto is a two-track show and many tough choices need to be made; one tough thing that hurt us this year was a difficulty in getting our favorite Google speakers to make the trip from Mountain View, and the great reluctance of Microsoft and Yahoo speakers to commit until the last minute, due to their merger issues.
There is a real effort to provide relevant substance to audience members with a variety of needs — and the whole (networking aspect) is supposed to be greater than the sum of the parts.
That you take such umbrage at well-respected speakers doing a little clowning around from time to time suggests you might want to get over yourself.
There continues to be strong and growing demand for the conferences; I can only conclude it is for good reason — and it is quality speakers and great energy coming from attendees that makes each and every show. Onward, upward, etc.
4. I cannot guarantee that none of the fine members of this community who find themselves thrust onto a podium will ever make an off-color or offbeat joke ever again. In case you hadn’t noticed – there is something slightly deranged about search people. But we are doing our best to make the solid business cases in the process.
I think Google Dominator is a fantastic way to get your website in line with Google’s rules. I think this is a fabulous website. I love the way you advertise. People love to see things and you make it unique by applying your message to your clothing. Genius!!
Love ya Shoe … but not this guest article. It’d been a lot more “believable” if SEOBitch actually had a true name, instead of hiding behind a moniker.
Here’s the deal folks.. Kevin’s not Danny… Danny’s not Kevin. There’s change, it’s bound to happen. Kevin’s got a totally different style of humor than Danny – knowing and interacting w/ the both, you tend to get to understand this and love each person for their own difference.
Kind of funny, read this article a while aback… and after reading this post, it just popped into my brain at how ironic it is to this post about him. Maybe SEOBitch should read “Social Networks: We Are All Animals” – http://searchenginewatch.com/showPage.html?page=3629957 …. just a thought.
In the mean time folks as someone else pointed out, there’s been times when Danny’s been just as snarky… but I guess we gloss that over because its been the past now. Kevin’s the new guy so he gets brunt of attacks like this, guess he’s got his “raining shit” umbrella out and ready. LOL
ahh well…. drama for the sake of links and traffic is what it looks like to me.
~Li
who is Ryan btw?????????
I’m of the belief that search is dying, and KMR is doing a nice job of trying to keep it on life support. Consider it gallows humor, perhaps. I’ve worked with Ryan and I like the guy. As Beal notes, he’s an acquired taste.
I agree with you about kevin. I think if you put him in any category it would be ‘guy trying to be TV host, wearing a suit’
The problem is that SES is supposed to be geek – not suits, but unfortunately he represents the changing times for SES.
Its possible he was trying to lighten the atmosphere, but in all seriousness their is a time and place for everything, and the ses conference last time I checked was not banaroo :/
I’ve honestly never heard of him ?
well you used an effective title for this post…
Who remembers the days when the SES keynotes were the likes of jerry yang, eric schmidt, barry diller, marissa mayer and other inspiring INDUSTRY folks worth listening to? lee seigel….please, i’d rather eat my boxed roast beef lunch than get up and listen to that D lister. who’s keynoting next year – the SEO Champion?
Kevin Ryan’s a character, no doubt about it. But I like characters. They make life (and conferences) a hell of a lot more interesting. I also like pot-stirrers – Kevin said he’d gotten lots of sh*t from inviting Lee Siegel (noted Internet critic) to the conference to speak, but he did so because he thought it was important to bring in “dissenting opinions.” I think that the search industry as a whole is actually poised to split in a few directions anyway – kind of the before/during/after (google-breaking/content & conversions/analytics) and maybe this is reflected in our differing opinions on Kevin. I’m more on the marketing side, so I like his style, maybe those mired in stats find his antics too frat boyish. Kevin seems to be a guy with many interests and passions for knowledge and I dig that he’s trying to throw a balance of that at SES. Whether this works for the current search community remains to be seen, but I for one am enjoying the effort. (I live-blogged SES SJ for aimclearblog.com)
I just really enjoyed watching Shoe roll through the conference center. If your in the industry and haven’t watched the Shoe and company show roll through town, you haven’t lived yet.
Sounds like Kevin Ryan maybe looking for work!
Kevin ryan seems to be cool..
ah, the guy himself kevin rayn
Cool stuffs going on in SES
shoe it was nice seeing you man but this is some shiznee for link bait. KMR does a great job with the show and although some people got upset by his choice of humor, that is no reason to try to bring down the house.
Humour is a very individual thing and this sounds like it missed it’s mark, although without a vid link and just going on heresay it’s hard to tell.
It was my first SES after hearing all the raves of the others. I attended almost all of the keynotes and many of the sessions that Kevin Ryan moderated. Sorry guys, the comedy was too intense on the drugs, other addictives and running down speakers or presenters. A little comedy is good, but this was over the top and unprofessional.
@Jumbo I agree too much SES
But anyways, I know this is the number one place to find drama happening in the webmaster world.
Folks, please understand that a lot of people put a lot of effort into making SES a strong conference. The speakers do sincerely care about the content they deliver, at least the ones I was hanging around did. Here’s another view of the stuffs that goes on behind the scenes and in front of the crowds.
Many of the speakers and the staff throwing the show are on the road as often as they are at home. Travel is exhausting, the days (and nights) are quite long and adrenaline is the only thing keeping most of us on our feet. Adrenaline does weird things in high quantities. Trust me, I have pharmacological and psychological experience in this field.
There is so much money involved in the industry a requisite and obvious amount of stress exists around the concept of responsibility. The tone of a multi-billion dollar industry is influenced by all of our actions (including everyone reading this post). Nobody is unaware of that, least of all Kevin. He is a down-to-Earth regular guy with tremendous responsibilities on his shoulders. The same can be said for most people reading this post. We’re all ordinary people in an extraordinary world. That comes with the industry we’re in.
The speakers and organizers all know each other from dozens of previous events. We tend to be friends who see each other every couple weeks in rather bizarre and surreal settings. The days move at 100mph and there are a lot of conference events that speakers and organizers have to attend every evening. Networking is mandatory and every night there is a different industry party or charity event to be at. Four hours (or less) of sleep later, one has to be ready to be at their best in front of a live audience. By day 3, things tend to get a bit punchy. Extreme silliness happens but everyone involved cares deeply about attendee experience.
Kevin’s a good guy. He is getting used to the search industry. He comes from the part of the online-marketing industry where search is moving to, not necessarily where we’ve come from. Many of “us” have been around for a long time and have our own particular understandings of the industry and our own sort of culture. Danny Sullivan is the figure he replaced, enormous shoes for ANYONE to fill. Kevin has proven to be a very, very quick learner.
Kevin organized and oversaw a small army of staff to pull the show off. SES SJ was a good show. He has amazing folks working with him. Matt, Stewart, Marilyn, Fred and everyone else put incredible effort into every conference. Don’t underestimate how passionately they care about attendee experience. They certainly care enough to listen and respond.
There is less self-promotion from the stage as shows go forward. Kevin has been enforcing a no-advatorial policy on speakers. Speakers who persist in advatorial usually get one warning and are then just not invited back. I heard more company pitches at San Jose from the audience during Q&A than I did from speakers themselves.
I think it should be noted that SES SJ was one of the smoothest conferences I’ve ever attended. Yeah, Kevin made a poor choice of comment once or twice in the four intense day affair. It happens and as I wrote a few paragraphs back (sorry for the length), Kevin has proven to be a very quick learner. I doubt it’ll happen again. That hardly means he is pulling the industry down.
Here is one change I’d like to note before I stop writing and get back to work… The keynote addresses are varied and extremely interesting. Kevin has reached into his sack of contacts and found ways to get noted authors, philosophers and entrepreneurs on stage. Some of the speakers directly challenge the industry’s dominant points of view. Sometimes people get upset when hearing something that runs contrary to their world-view. In some cases Kevin appears to be pushing buttons on purpose. This is a good thing, even if it pushes some people’s boundaries. While I disagree with much of what one author who keynoted last week had written, I was damn glad for the chance to hear him speak about it in person. It stretched my brain a bit and challenged my sense of credulity but it was worth it.
Ultimately, that’s what the very best conferences are supposed to do. They stretch our brains a bit. SES appears to be trying to do just that. Let’s give Kevin a lot more time before declaring his influence detrimental to the industry. He’s earned it and let’s face it… there are a lot of other things making the search and Internet marketing sector look stupid we can collectively care about.
I do hope to see folks at the next SES as well as SMX, PubCon, AdTech, and the countless other shows webmasterradio attends. Don’t get turned off by a few negatives. At all shows, there are far more positives than there are negatives and collectively these shows reflect whatever “us” is.
Holy James Joyce Batman!
When ‘Danny ran the show’ there were many-a-time people could have picked him apart for being a bit ’snarky’ and downright eccentric at times.
This is a bit sensationalized. IMO
Was this a post by Shoe or guest?
This is a guest post by seobitch.
That’s pretty funny…an anonymous post throttling someone!
It’s ridiculous that ‘Shoe’ allows someone to hide behind a curtain
and tear people apart on his own blog. (not the first time this has taken place)
Cowards!
To round out the coverage of the “SEO Rehab & Intervention” session at SES San Jose 2008, check out the post by Thomas McMahon over at TopRank’s Online Marketing Blog (http://www.toprankblog.com/2008/08/seo-rehab-intervention/). According to Thomas, “The SEO Rehab & Intervention was a great session oh how we are all addicted to something in our industry. Granted it was a bit of an un-structed session, but that’s what made it entertaining.” And George at SEOMFG (http://www.seomfg.com/ses-san-jose-2008/session-seo-rehab-and-intervention/) says, “This might have been the most refreshing session at SES. Toward the end, far after the exodus of uninvolved marketing ladies during the session’s awkward but poignant opening, a lot of valuable conversation pursued that gave some fascinating insight into the minds of many of the top players in the SEO industry.” There’s more, but these are just some samples of the bloggers who covered the session.
I sat in on this session and I have to say Kevin really was just playing along with the panel. He might have made one to many “edits” but in a goof off session it made sense.
I attended (and liveblogged) 14 sessions at SES this year. I thought SEO Rehab was a great, fun session and a nice mental break from the other sessions. It was certainly not representative of the majority of sessions at SES. I also imagine you can take comments from Lisa, Susan, and Virginia out of context from many of the sessions and make it look like the conference was off-topic.
I think most of us know the style of the BC bloggers and know the context in which they write. I don’t know the style as well of the other people from Twitter, but it would be interesting to look at the other tweets they made during that session, rather than just pulling out a particular tweet to support your viewpoint.
Was my first SES and I enjoyed it. Some of Mr. Ryan’s jokes fell flat, but I def appreciated the effort to inject humor into what otherwise can be a rather dry and humorless subject.
@JumboCasher same question as “cheap used cars” – what’s being from the US got to do with it?
The title of the session was “SEO Rehab” and it was certainly meant to be a bit silly in illustrating SEO obsession in contrast to an addiction.
In as much as I appreciate the comments, adding some levity to the occasional session is, in my opinion, often well received. Each session is different and requires a different mindset and delivery style. I am a big enough person to admit when I make a mistake, and in this instance it appears that I didn’t achieve the desired outcome.
As to the direction of this conference, I think it’s a bit unfair to label SES negatively over 1 or 2 sessions. This is my ninth SES (Chicago, New York, London, Hamburg, Paris, San Jose, Toronto, Travel Edition, Miami) in just over a year and the feedback we have received has been for the most part very positive.
In the next session, my twitter comment to Andy (a man I hold in high regard) was a tongue in cheek reference to his defiance of the use of the SES template in his presentation. I am just getting to know Andy, but the more I do, the more I appreciate his wit, style and expertise. I am still going to ask that he use the template though;–)
Dave, Andy, Michael and Greg had a great deal of ideas to offer. I liked Dave’s comments so much that I plan to profile his thoughts in my column in Search Engine Watch over the next two weeks.
-KMR
It was the most memorable session at SES San Jose 2008. Not everyone can lead a session and turn it into what we saw, it was just cool! At the end of the day this is not an accounting conference but marketing, hey, room to be creative? Guess Kevin’s chapter is save in “Made to stick”, as at least everyone will remember it well, compared to some dull sessions of packed presentations without any wit. Kevin presenting would be a reason for me to visit an SES again.
So much money was put into this conference that it’d be dumb to run it down because of one guy or one panel (never minding the fact that Kevin organized it). Yes, there are still points which can be improved: the last day could have been longer and more informational (taking out that half the people was gone by then), not so much faded away into a blank end, sparing all the parties for the end instead of eating up the useful nights, the speakers actually providing for more information and (some of them) less sales pitches and stuff.
But this is general and it’s not just one panel. If you were unhappy with that particular panel, you could get up and leave… it’s not that you have to listen to this guys in order to survive in the SEM or SEO arenas in the real world.
I don’t remember seeing many of the people here commenting or even requesting seriousness in the middle of the panel.
Plus, no one said that in the SEO rehab everyone was going to talk about their own SEO exploits in front of Matt Cutts sitting on the last row on the back. They won’t even do it if he’s not around.
@JumboCasher what does it matter if he is from the US?
The last google dance and now the last SES..
all the drama makes me want to attend.
Very surprising! Quite a change.
how trust worthy is it to do business with such a person, specially if he is from the US?
too much of ses these days… looks like people are on the high!
I think everyone has their own confrence now days
never met this kevin dude. what I can tell u is this sounds like a classic shoe entry into a new market. is there a shoemoney conference coming up?
That would be Elite Retreat. A great conference, but not the same type. Much more hands-on and less of the theory.
@POOPeGifts_com are you the dude I met that sells shit in a box? If so, you’re awesome.
This was my twitter from the session:
” after some observations, its pretty clear @kevinmryan likely knows CA is a 420 friendly state. 03:38 PM August 20, 2008 from mobile web “
Well, as usual, you have promoted quite a bit of discussion, Jeremy.
That is a bit wierd to say the least.
I don’t want to insert myself into this silly link bait, but I have to say I find it incredibly irresponsible for you to twist people’s words to promote your own agenda. Kevin Ryan did a great job running what was a very strong SES show. That’s something you *can* quote me on.
LOL – too much SES-ing, I guess?
Might seem funny if you were high.
I’ve never met both individuals personally, but from what I’ve read about the two, while Danny Sullivan certainly seems to be a born leader, Kevin Ryan seems to have his way of doing stuff. I see how some COULD be offended by his remarks while others just play on with him.
Interesting stuff I tell you.
kevin m ryan is definitely one funny guy. he puts on a nice comedy routine during the sessions which can break the monotony of some of the topics.
I couldn’t stop laughing when he said “I came across a page that was PR 0 and this page has Catherine Zeta Jones in her underwear. Could be the most important page I have ever seen. Should have been a PR 10″ in a link building session. Funny stuff.
In another session, he couldn’t remember the name of something and attributed the lapse to “too much bong resin”. Again, funny, but perhaps a little risque for some of the audience members.
To be fair, few can replace Sullivan’s passion, the quality of content he is constantly producing, the interest he sparks in the subject matter, his humility, and style. Danny leads a tight knit community, with a very loyal following. He treats the big shot superstars, and lone blogger unknowns with the same respect and dignity.
Kevin is the ex-agency type from the world of big brands and agency politics. He is a great personality to attract big brand awareness of the industry, and someone who can bring SEM into more of the mainstream amongst more traditional media marketers. This might be a good strategy for the execs at Incisive, but certainly does not mesh well with the mom-and-pops of SEM world, and the non-agency folks. His rather “light” blog posting frequency and forum participation certainly does not put him in the same boat as his predecessor.
Sorry to be a bit harsh kevin, i love you, i know you work hard, but you have some pretty big shoes to fill.
Thanks for the feedback… some good points are made here. Just to clarify, this entire post is mainly about one session (with a small reference to 2 other sessions) out of an entire 5 day conference with over 70 sessions. There has been a ton of positive feedback, much of which has come from this blog, which is only strengthened by hearing the constructive as well.
Remember, SES SJ was the largest gathering of Search professionals this year – thank you to everyone (pretty much the entire SEM community!) for your input and invaluable contributions.
Those of you who were not there we hope to see you at a show in the future I guarantee you will enjoy your experience.
Matt McGowan
VP, Marketing
Search Engine Strategies
SearchEngineWatch.com
ClickZ.com
(Incisive Media)
It’s people like you, Matt, that make me feel like there’s hope.
But overall, I felt the spirit was down with some of Kevin’s drug references being way beneath professional.
Sounds to me like he was trying to spoof. The problem with that is you don’t know who “get’s it” and who doesn’t. If people aren’t sure if you are kidding or serious they will get uncomfortable. If you are using humor you need to make it clear to them or they will squirm. You also need to know when to drop it and get back to business.
This does not come across very professional, could it be the SEO shirt you were wearing broke his concentration
It will definitely be a good thing to have different information at the events, even if it is just an extension of an existing conversation.
Before this, I was getting excited about going to SES Chicago in December (my first BIG SEO conference). I am rethinking my plan now.
Thanks for the info Shoe
To me, it came across as a little over the top. Moving forward, I think “less is more” would play well.
Kevin is definitely an “acquired taste.” If you don’t know much about him, I can see how easily to is to be offended by his actions. I tend to either ignore his craziness or simply play him at his own game.
I think the SEO Rehab session was designed to be a bit “out there” and despite my tweet (which was designed to get people talking), I think Kevin’s moderation of the session was not “out of touch” with the panelist discussion. I actually think this (and the White Hat / Black Hat session) were the two best sessions I attended.
Now, if Kevin moderated thusly in a site clinic, I would think it inappropriate…however, everyone on the panel was being a bit goofy and Kevin was playing along with it.
The man who owns information, is lord of the world. People rarely share valuable information. Мany lord of the world is not a good. -))))
have any other examples? this sounds like an attempt at comedy that went very badly.
I wouldn’t do business with him, but I will absolutely party with him
This doesn’t surprise me at all. I decided against ever again attending SES (Toronto that is), because none of the panelists seemed to truly take it seriously, let alone those orchestrating the event. For most of them it seemed to be just another opportunity to wax intelligence and blow their own horn, while half of us in the audience were just waiting for them to tell us something we didn’t already know.
That’s something that concerns me as well, you take time out to go to a conference and find you are being told stuff you already know. That’s not whats its about – it should be for sharing new ideas.
I remember a story about Pink Floyd when one of their original band members started losing it from too much acid, he used to stand on stage strumming the same note on his guitar for the whole gig.
I think he is in some mental institution now?
Seems like odd behavior… wonder what he was trying to go with. You don’t instill a “party-like” atmosphere by acting that way, unless you’re high or tripping.
I haven’t been to an SEO conference in the US (as yet) but learning about the change with SES has defo put a question mark over it for me.