172

What Is The Internet Marketer’s Drug Of Choice?

Posted July 15th, 2008 by Jeremy Schoemaker

Techcrunch had a interesting story today about lots Silicon Valley entrepreneurs being hopped up on Provigil.

Provigil (aka Modafinil) is marketed by Cephalon in the United States and is available by prescription only. It’s only approved use in the U.S. is to treat narcolepsy, a sleeping disorder. But since the main effect of Provigil is to keep you awake and able to concentrate, a lot of people who get their hands on it use it to be able to work longer hours, even though it has not been deemed safe for that kind of use.

Now I have a pretty diverse background in IT. Going back over the last 15 years or so I have seen a lot of drugs in the tech industry. Back when I was super into security and used to goto the Defcon conferences years ago (like 5+) it was not uncommon to see Cocaine floating around.

But most people I know in the Internet Marketing, whether its Affiliate Marketers, Search Engine Optimizers, Social Media people, and even just bloggers seem to prefer drugs that slow you down as opposed to those that speed you up.

Drugs that speed me up always scared me. My mind goes fast enough as it is. I sometimes need to take meds that slow me down just so I can sleep. I have admitted before in q&a that I have puffed a bit on some sweet cheebah every once in a while so I am not here to judge anyone.

So I am curious… Being many internet marketers read this site lets throw it out there completely anonymously. What is your drug of choice?

What Is Your Drug Of Choice?
View Results

Disclaimer

Before acting on this post, be sure to read my Disclaimer.

- Comment Likes - Comment Dislikes

172 comments. What say you?

  1. Good Comment?
    Grady Zero

    A couple of notes I would add about Provigil It is very expensive. It will cost you about $ $10 to $ 15 per 200 MG dose. As a narcoleptic that has been on it for 4 years, I can tell you most insurance won’t pay for it so you are looking at about a $ 600 a month “habit”. (It’s not addictive, really.”) Also note that may users have reported a “paradoxal” reaction when they have used alcohol the previous day where they become extremely fatigued after taking it the following day. Researchers have not been able to explain this phenomenon. Also note there have been rare reports of heart attacks in normal doses in young people. Proceed with caution! My physicians are not familiar with all the side effects of this drug and most over prescribe the dosage. Many time as much a 4000 mg/day. It is most commonly prescribed “off label” as an enhancer to common antidepressants.

  2. Good Comment?
    The Poker Jerk

    It’s all about the Coke (no, I didn’t vote caffeine)

  3. Good Comment?
    The THC Times

    You can easily see what our drug of choice is… It’s a great injustice that there are even laws against things that harm no one but the user.

  4. Good Comment?
    Myrtle Beach Rentals

    kinda funny Marijuana won no hands down

  5. Good Comment?
    PPC

    Currently the poll has 36 nicotine users, versus 37 cocaine users. Surely more people smoke than use cocaine?

  6. Good Comment?
    PPC

    Have you seen the dangers of aspertame, the active sweetenening ingredient in Coke Zero and other diet drinks? Trust me, you’re better off having the sugar. Just beware, because the acid in cooldrinks eats away your tooth enamel. Nobody wants to see a salesperson or marketer with a bad smile.

  7. Good Comment?
    PPC

    And one of the most commented on too! Shows you what linkbait some terms can deliver.

  8. Good Comment?
    PPC

    Red Bull definitely gives you wings! The stuff is just so expensive though

  9. Good Comment?
    PPC

    Absolutely the most commonly used legal stimulant. Cigarettes also help keeping sleepy eyes at bay!

  10. Good Comment?
    Carnival of Making Money Online

    You can’t get addicted to caffeine, so it isn’t a real drug.

  11. Good Comment?
    Godaddy Coupons

    Caffeine for sure

  12. Good Comment?
    freeman

    My biggest drug is nicotine. That’s the way i like it.

  13. Good Comment?
    Godaddy Coupons and Promo Codes

    Most internet marketers probably drink coffee so caffeine

  14. Good Comment?
    Austin(Cowsgonemadd3)

    Actually a apple does a better job of giving you energy.

  15. Good Comment?
    Austin(Cowsgonemadd3)

    It gives you wings!haha

  16. Good Comment?
    Austin(Cowsgonemadd3)

    Not as good as a apple I read. It may get you up but then it beats you into the ground later on.

  17. Good Comment?
    Austin(Cowsgonemadd3)

    Did you know too much caffeine can give you a stomach ache?

  18. Good Comment?
    Austin(Cowsgonemadd3)

    Caffeine sorta picks you up and then beats you into the ground later on.

  19. Good Comment?
    Austin(Cowsgonemadd3)

    Yuck, you drink diet? Thats stuff is full of yuck.

  20. Good Comment?
    Austin(Cowsgonemadd3)

    Agreed! Just get the rest you need and you wont need caffeine or anything else.

  21. Good Comment?
    Austin(Cowsgonemadd3)

    Including kill you over time as it eats your lungs.

  22. Good Comment?
    Austin(Cowsgonemadd3)

    I dont do any drugs nor do I want caffeine as it just picks you up and beats you into the ground later on.

  23. Good Comment?
    Web Marketeer

    Your spelling sucks though. Indicative of short term memory loss, perhaps?

  24. Good Comment?
    Web Marketeer

    Red Bull just gets very expensive. Quaffing back the stuff can cost you as much as any other bad habit!

  25. Good Comment?
    Web Marketeer

    Hypnosis works like da bomb for quitting smoking. You do need to have a deep seated desire to quit though. It worked for me!

  26. Good Comment?
    Web Marketeer

    Ritalin is commonly referred to as “cocaine for kids” so you got a point in the pep me up stakes there!

  27. Good Comment?
    Web Marketeer

    That depends on the level you’re dealing with. Upper echelons prefer good whiskey. The rabble are generally the beer drinkers (suppose that makes me a big rabble….hahahah)

  28. Good Comment?
    Web Marketeer

    LOL, you sound like heaps of fun!

  29. Good Comment?
    Web Marketeer

    Some of the comments one encounters on blogs could well be put down to inebriated posters. Won’t recommend doing this too often though, just now you spill it!

  30. Good Comment?
    Dick

    I think that drug use is impermissible for a human weakness.

  31. Good Comment?
    Web Marketeer

    As long as it ain’t a crack pipe….LOL

  32. Good Comment?
    Web Marketeer

    Marijuana definitely is an unwise choice when trying to be focused and productive. For non-thinking, repetitive manual type work it seems to do wonders, there is a road crew working down the road from the office and the cigarettes they smoke smell very grassy ;) Their workrate is intense though!

  33. Good Comment?
    Web Marketeer

    But can you work when your screen and keyboard are morphing into colourful putty? LOL

  34. Good Comment?
    Web Marketeer

    Oxygen definitely has its own merit. Quite invigorating, especially when delivered in the form of an icy blast of wind in the face.

  35. Good Comment?
    Web Marketeer

    Coffee rules the roost as far as legal substances are concerned, it seems everybody here pretty much agrees on that!

  36. Good Comment?
    Simple Things

    i prefer to use nicotine… I know its very restricted, but for me, cigarete could do anything in 2-6 Am lolz….

    nice blog here… and nice to meet you btw ;)

  37. Good Comment?
    Godaddy Coupons and Promo Codes

    I probably like caffeine the best

  38. Good Comment?
    Marko

    Provigil will probably be making a fast move to the top after people read this, http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/15/how-many-of-our-startup-executives-are-hopped-up-on-provigil/

  39. Good Comment?
    Zenna

    Tooughyyyy! My drug of choice is illegal and I havent done it for 13 years :0 Speeding you up was its jobs slooooowed me down it did. Nutty I am!

  40. Good Comment?
    evo

    i had a few to click but was limited to one.

  41. Good Comment?
    Mark w smith

    Sizzurp.

  42. Good Comment?
    Mehmet

    should be none choice.

  43. Good Comment?
    Geiger

    Don’t be a Narc. I chose caffeine.

  44. Good Comment?
    Brian

    No drugs, caffeine or nicotine in my system But, I have a wicked addiction to everything Google.

  45. Good Comment?
    Mitchell Blatt, JSB

    Caffiene shouldn’t be listed since it’s legal.

    The reason chocolate helps so much is because it has caffiene and sugar in it.

  46. Good Comment?
    Dick

    I do not use drugs. And you do not advise. Sport is the best drug.

  47. Good Comment?
    Joshua McNiel

    I like to smoe trees, alot of them, and I’m still successful.

  48. Good Comment?
    varun

    Choclate really helps, with no side effects(except to stinking mouth) as compared to other drugs given in the list

  49. Good Comment?
    Patrick

    None, why alter your brain activity at all?

  50. Good Comment?
    Mike Huang

    Marijuana all the way! :)

  51. Good Comment?
    j Shepard

    Seriously I can only choose one, what kind of poll is this
    bottom line,

    Bolivian Yay for the morning and some good old BC Bud to go to sleep, I go through at least an ounce of blow every 3 weeks, and I have a pound of bud in my freezer at any given time, so Yes I know I have a serious problem, Whatever….

  52. Good Comment?
    rick

    Weed makes me so much more creative and thoughtful. It helps me question the world

  53. Good Comment?
    purposeinc

    Arnold Palmer – 1/2 Lemonade 1/2 Iced Tea.

  54. Good Comment?
    Jason

    Definitely weed. Nothing brings out my creativity more than being high… :)

  55. Good Comment?
    Goran Website

    Well put. MJ definitely stifles productivity and demotivates people. Coffee is a good get up and go, but good nutrition, exercise and adequate sleep is the best way of regualting one’s energy levels naturally.

  56. Good Comment?
    Goran Website

    Coffee and white sugar are two of the most widely abused drugs in the world (not that they actually get classified as such)

  57. Good Comment?
    Indian Forum

    i just drink alcohol and smoke not additcted to any of these and hope not to get addicted in near future too :D

  58. Good Comment?
    Bryn Youngblut

    Bah starbucks is too expensive

  59. Good Comment?
    Bryn Youngblut

    Maryjane and caffeine are in a tight race

  60. Good Comment?
    Jason Bartholme

    If I time my Ritalin dosing out right, I can get tons done in a night.

  61. Good Comment?
    Chris

    I’m dissappointed you missed toad licking……

  62. Good Comment?
    meethere

    yes, we need none choice :D
    I dont anything.. only occasionally alcohol ;)

  63. Good Comment?
    Eva White

    I guess caffine, nicotine and alcohol would have been my picks!

  64. Good Comment?
    JoshN

    drugs? at defcon? no….

  65. Good Comment?
    John

    I don’t use anything…I am a night person and have no issues staying focused until midnight or so….if i had to it would be Pepsi

  66. Good Comment?
    dh006

    Caffeine all the way. Lots of Diet Coke usually. Maybe a few Nodoze here and there.

    Hard liquor and caffeine for the rough times though ;)

  67. Good Comment?
    matt

    I see marijuana has taken the lead. (Legalize it!) :D

  68. Good Comment?
    jim

    yeah for real

  69. Good Comment?
    Cassie

    I’m taking hydromorphone right now for chronic pain until I get my surgery, but I sure don’t mind taking it in the meantime :) I can’t blog when I’m on it most of the time though or I end up with completely bullshit posts.

    I have coffee once in awhile which helps a bit, and at night I go for a cigarette to mellow me out.

  70. Good Comment?
    Tim

    All of the above (almost…years ago). Very true that many programmers do a ton of drugs. I have seen that stereotype many times. Then the other half of them are complete dorks. Caffeine seems to be the best choice for me long term. And even that sucks sometimes. I used to know some programmers that would use speed and coke to finish projects when they had a big deadline. But then it led into other parts of their lives. Long term, a healthy diet, exercise, and plenty of sleep seems to be the best way to keep going. Drugs just begin to have very negative effects as one gets older. But ahhh, the good old days!

  71. Good Comment?
    joe

    CAFFEINE

  72. Good Comment?
    Jimmy Daniels

    I picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue….

  73. Good Comment?
    john

    Coffee to start the day then straight into beer by the night and straight back into coffee if I work all night. I may even throw a green tea in there to be healthy! Good post!

  74. Good Comment?
    Dave

    I’d say lots of the silicon guys are trying to stay wake because they’re running on empty since their VC funds are disappearing. Espresso all the way!

  75. Good Comment?
    Rekzai

    Nothing is better than marijuana.

  76. Good Comment?
    Bryn Youngblut

    I do it all the time, it’s not that effective but it’s possible. lol

  77. Good Comment?
    Bryn Youngblut

    I hear ya there

  78. Good Comment?
    Angela Allen Parker

    Dark Chocolate Cover Coffee Beans. Hands down favorite!

  79. Good Comment?
    Andrew

    Count how many cigarettes you smoke in a single day and then try to go down by one every day or second day. As you get down to a small amount of cigarettes per day, try to space them out evenly throughout the day.

  80. Good Comment?
    Jonathan Radande

    I’m a Caffeine addict too. I drink of joice is Diet Pepsi Max..Caffeine and Ginseng…you can’t beat that.

  81. Good Comment?
    Lightening@Lightenings Blogworld

    Now that is kind of scary!!!! :( Good to see that you added Caffeine as a drug – and that it’s leading the pack, although not by much by the looks of things.

  82. Good Comment?
    Melvin

    wow… this is a useful find… me i take caffeine a lot… although many people feel caffeine would help them not fall asleep, in my case it’s a contrast

  83. Good Comment?
    Chris Edwards

    Comedy!!! I thought the purpose was to make sure we could stay awake not get high! *Hand Raised – Caffeine”

  84. Good Comment?
    Moneybites

    Correction: Happiness

  85. Good Comment?
    amer1can paratrooper

    My biggest drug is Monster Engergy Drinks (low cal). Us GI’s love it. It’s just what the doctor ordered.

  86. Good Comment?
    Moneybites

    my drug is HAPINESS and my dealer is LIFE!

  87. Good Comment?
    Tamsyn

    Nice and simple for me, Coffee and Chocolate :)

  88. Good Comment?
    Movies

    I was also searching for that option

  89. Good Comment?
    Internal Link Building for On-Site SEO

    Hmmm…interesting results.
    I agree, caffeine is good for about half-hour then I get too hyped and can’t really focus too well because my mind is racing, I can’t imagine working in IM or AM on cocaine???!!!!!??????

  90. Good Comment?
    Breeds Of Dog

    lol!

  91. Good Comment?
    M. Johnson

    Caffeine and Nicotene keep me awake and definitely working a lot more than the days I go without.

  92. Good Comment?
    Forex Robot Reviews

    What about Alcohol?

    Long Island Iced Tea for me please!

  93. Good Comment?
    Andy Crofford

    Just caffeine for me!

  94. Good Comment?
    Saad Kamal

    Caffeine Baby!

  95. Good Comment?
    Mark - The Niche Store Builder

    Man… I wish I could choose three or 4 from that list!

    I would have to say though… tobacco is number 1.

    Mark

  96. Good Comment?
    DotDriven

    Just caffeiiiinneee! And has some prescribed drugs for pain but did whatever I could to get off those…even deal with the extra pain without them lol.

  97. Good Comment?
    big jason

    triple vente white mocha please!

  98. Good Comment?
    Diogo, D-Iglesias.com

    BEER!!

  99. Good Comment?
    Ash

    Caffeine for me. Marijuana is good too :P

  100. Good Comment?
    Search Engine Optimization Journal

    Wow…. most interesting poll we’ve seen in a while. 13 coke users eh? Wow… glad to see people are pretty PG-13 here and chose “Caffeine”.

  101. Good Comment?
    Affiliate Marketing Blog

    Caffeine. :) Coke Zero = my friend.

  102. Good Comment?
    cheap used cars

    spoken like someone who doesn’t partake… i think THC affects everyone differently, some people have the incapacitated response, some get super focused.. *shrug* to each their own.

  103. Good Comment?
    Jackie Johnson

    One day last week I had to skip my coffee due to a pending blood test scheduled at 9:30 am. By the time I got to the doctor’s office, I couldn’t even tell you my middle name. I actually bought a cup of coffee on the way there so it would be in my car the exact second I left the office.

  104. Good Comment?
    cheap used cars

    praise jah! I don’t do caffeine or any kind of speed up drugs at all.. smoke weed pretty much constantly and drink socially..once every 3 years I might eat some x or shrooms :-O

  105. Good Comment?
    Zak Show

    I go with energy drikns like Power Horse or Red Bull, These are much better.

  106. Good Comment?
    Lucas Conley

    Great poll! Was alcohol just too obvious? And how about combos? “Click two or more to recreate your favorite cocktail!”

  107. Good Comment?
    Stephan Miller

    Caffiene most of the time, but I have to have the gange. No xanax listed. Bummer. It makes me a commenting fool.

  108. Good Comment?
    Zak Show

    Ohh Marijuana is in the second postion after Cafeine! lol, I didn’t know that Internet marketers are too addicted :) Weed man, that’s crazy, you’ll be sleeping and out minded all the time :p how you will find the time to work?

  109. Good Comment?
    Archie Pennies

    Caffeine (Diet Pepsi) and Nicotine (Marlboro cigarettes ). I am still trying to quit smoking cigarettes. :-(

  110. Good Comment?
    Zak Show

    yes I agree and you’ll lose all your earning and you’ll quick MMO to be a drug or arm dealer in order to have the cash for that poison!

  111. Good Comment?
    Zak Show

    yes, sure it gives energy, especially the good tasty ones.

  112. Good Comment?
    Zak Show

    Nothing for now, I used to drink too much coffee, soda and energy drinks, but now and after a terrible accident I prefer to stay away from all these stuff for the moment I guess! Tomorrow, who knows!

  113. Good Comment?
    Zak Show

    I don’t think that you can blog and work if you are drunk!

  114. Good Comment?
    Jeff

    Jack Daniel’s

  115. Good Comment?
    joe

    I love the smell of burning heroin in the morning.

  116. Good Comment?
    Make Money Talks

    Heh just give me
    some Nicotine to take breath :)

  117. Good Comment?
    Christian

    Haha, nice Poll!

    Voted for Caffeine…

  118. Good Comment?
    Taylor

    Caffeine, one iced coffee at noon to get the afternoon going, oh and ZipFizz for even more energy.

  119. Good Comment?
    ShoeMoney

    it has been added

  120. Good Comment?
    Mubin

    Anonymous like a youtube video to viacom?

  121. Good Comment?
    Julia

    Where’s adderall?

    Drug of choice for those 25 years or younger.

  122. Good Comment?
    Sell Porn Make Money

    Sex, lots of hot sex… preferably not with myself!

  123. Good Comment?
    Rhys

    Where’s alcohol?

    Small glass of red wine never killed anybody. French live yonks and drink loads of the stuff :)

  124. Good Comment?
    Matt

    I honestly recommend ritalin for people who want a quick buzz to help with concentration.

  125. Good Comment?
    me

    Vodka mixed with redline

  126. Good Comment?
    Stephanie

    I need a ‘none’ or ‘chocolate’ choice. I quit buying soda a long time ago to save money, but I can’t give up my dark chocolate for that quick bit of energy. I keep a bag of 60% Ghirardelli chocolate chips in the freezer for quick use, and often have 70% cocoa chocolate around in bar form.

  127. Good Comment?
    Web Professor

    lol.. no I doubt they would.. I read it as a general question about drugs..

    Although when I was on the down side of drugs like that I a was very creative and a great worker.

  128. Good Comment?
    Todd Mintz

    Would any serious internet marketer take LSD and then try to work?

  129. Good Comment?
    Kevin

    Caffeine is my main sin. I pass on the others.

  130. Good Comment?
    JustinM

    All of the above. Preferably in multiple combinations.

  131. Good Comment?
    drugnerd

    Meth and opiates should be added to the list. I used to be a big druggie. I was addicted to GHB, meth, and benzos. Not all the same time but one replaced the other over the space of some years. Now I replaced all that stuff with working my ass off.

  132. Good Comment?
    Andrew

    It used to be a coffee and a cigarette for, but since I quit smoking long long ago, it’s just the caffeine that keeps me going now. I see that is what the majority have chose also.

  133. Good Comment?
    Eliza

    Well, I’d go with Caffeine.

    Desperately need a coffee now. :)

  134. Good Comment?
    Web Professor

    lol.. to much caffeine screws up my concentration

  135. Good Comment?
    Web Professor

    ecstacy was mine until I became a dad

  136. Good Comment?
    wuttrain

    where is my coffee?

  137. Good Comment?
    Shaun Carter

    Caffeine here, can’t say I’ve ever tried any of the others…

  138. Good Comment?
    Bryan

    Got a Capresso machine last year and can’t imagine a day without it now…..so yeah, caffeine

  139. Good Comment?
    OnlineGodfahter

    The best one for me would be the caffeine.

  140. Good Comment?
    Web Professor

    Ecstacy is my favorite. Runner ups would have to be pot and acid

    Although I haven’t done it in years.. becoming a daddy really ends a majority of that stuff

  141. Good Comment?
    netmeg

    Pseudoephedrine and Excedrin – breakfast of champions.

  142. Good Comment?
    Chris Abernethy

    Caffeine! Nothing like a can of jolt and a powerbar to spice things up.

  143. Good Comment?
    CVOS man

    what, no alcohol? Beer is the #1 user agent for deal making.

  144. Good Comment?
    voqk

    adderall anybody?

  145. Good Comment?
    Seanmag

    It depends on the activity. If it’s on page seo, I’ll go with 50mg Adderall, 10mg Provigil and a quintuple venti latte.

    If I’m doing some creative linkbaiting I’ll go with 2 hits of acid, 1 hit of ecstasy and a quick hit of the crack pipe.

    When writing content, I’ll typically mainline heroin while sipping on a grey goose martini, up with olives – very dry.

    But that just works for me. I suggest everyone experiment to find your own groove.

  146. Good Comment?
    Blerim

    nice keywords here :P

  147. Good Comment?
    Cigar Inspector

    Need to add alcohol (which I find is quite good to relax), “none” and “other” (you never know) :)

  148. Good Comment?
    Rhett Soveran

    Earl grey, hot.

  149. Good Comment?
    HipHoper

    GANJA!!!!!

  150. Good Comment?
    Chetan

    Chocolate does boosts your levels of activeness?

  151. Good Comment?
    Paul

    I do love Stella and on occasions Jagar

  152. Good Comment?
    Paul

    Drugs destroy dreams! Down with dope, up with hope. If I had to choose one it would be Redbull/Mountain Dew

  153. Good Comment?
    Start Blogging

    Not into drugs, haha. Umm, I drink coffee every now and then.

  154. Good Comment?
    nymphea studio

    You forget chocolate…

  155. Good Comment?
    EntreBlast

    Caffeine in the morning gets me up and working straight away!

  156. Good Comment?
    Dave

    Provigil FTW… totally works when needed. I take it when I have deadlines to hit and need to stay awake and focused. After words it just sits in the drawer till next time!

  157. Good Comment?
    tim

    what about alcohol?

  158. Good Comment?
    SMM Guru

    works on us all differently, I can tell you from experience that pot can also heighten awareness and your hole thought process.

  159. Good Comment?
    fake

    I tried to choose more than one. *looks over shoulder to see if friends coming to do an intervention*

  160. Good Comment?
    the Story Lady

    Caffeine does not do anything to me but I like the taste of good coffee. I don’t need any help to focus. I’m more focused than just about anybody I’ve run across. And I’m not in this biz to work 20 hour days either.

    If I need new angles or ideas I get on the Gazelle (sorta like a treadmill) and think/talk things through while walking.
    Ronda

  161. Good Comment?
    SMM Guru

    Why no option for codeine and sprite?

  162. Good Comment?
    Marc

    sweet cheebah !!!!!!!

  163. Good Comment?
    Sara

    You forgot alcohol. ;)

  164. Good Comment?
    Chetan

    Coffee.. that means Caffeine!

    You know the harmful effects of cocaine? It’s a lot dangerous..

  165. Good Comment?
    greg

    Best Poll Ever.

  166. Good Comment?
    Marshall Kirkpatrick

    I think a fair number of internet marketers appear to be high on LSD :) No, I’m just cracking up at the idea.

  167. Good Comment?
    AffiliateSupportTeam

    Actually I’m missing Red Bull as a separate choice :)

  168. Good Comment?
    Craig

    “drugs are bad…”
    Caffeine has to be common one for most and for me it’s the #1 productivity enhancer. Mary J just clouds judgement and makes me tired so that’s a thing in the past.

  169. Good Comment?
    LiviuX

    none of those. maybe redbull

  170. Good Comment?
    easterwolf

    LSD for me – I dig the visions I get lol!. And when I’m not in the sky with diamonds, its mugs of espresso.

  171. Good Comment?
    VaBeachKevin

    How about a ‘None’ choice?

  172. Good Comment?
    Sohan

    Caffeine is the best imo ;) legally..

Join the Discussion

*Discount rate good on new registrations only. Credits or refunds cannot be issued on previous registrations. Discount rate good through February 6, 2010, prevailing rate applies after that.