Social media has brought about a great change on the web. It has never been easier for just about anyone to have a voice online, and have that voice heard by thousands. With so many people authoring blogs, participating in social communities, and utilizing the various social communication tools, how do you keep people from saying too much?
I mean it is social and all, but when is it time to “Shut the f**k up already”?
Marketers talk and they always have. In the past, when they shared tricks, accomplishments, and information, it was done on a face to face basis. Whether through an IM conversation, emails, or over a drink or two, the sharing was always controlled to a certain extent.
Sure even in those controlled environments, information can accidentally get out. For example, when Rand Fishkin, a well know search marketing expert, overheard Matt Cutts talking with some people at SES San Jose about the sandbox, he blogged immediately about
it and caused quite a stir for publically releasing information that was from a private conversation. Luckily, social media was not as evolved as it is now, so the information and visibility of the blunder was minimal, thus quickly forgiven and forgotten.
Revealing too much information is not is not a new issue that is related only to social media. Even as far back as many of you might remember, there was always some marketer giving away just a little too much information. One example was when Bob Massa, SearchKing, announced that he was selling PageRank through his PR Ad Network. This prompted a trend of buying links for PageRank and resulted in Google launching a war against paid links.
Had Bob only shut the f**k up, he could have made a lot of money, but instead he lost the PR on his sites and it took four years to get it back.
So why is that people feel the need to talk about their accomplishments and the tricks they have figured out? There are three main reasons why people just cannot shut the f**k up:
The Good Guys are really good hearted marketers. When they discover a trick that works, they want to share it with their peers and friends.
We all love the good guys. They already know when to shut up and when to speak, and they are more likely to spend an evening sharing their tips and tricks face to face. It is the braggers and the ambitious people that you have to watch out for.
The Braggers lack confidence or desire attention. These marketers feel the need to brag about their accomplishments to fit in and make them feel accepted.
Normally I would say that the braggers are harmless, since they tend to have small followings and less of a reputation. However, every so often a somewhat visible and reputable marketer brags about something that they probably shouldn’t have.
Take Matt Inman, former SEOmozzer, who used widgets and quizzes to get inbound links with the anchor text “Free Online Dating” and “Online Dating” to his site Mingle2. The accomplishment earned his site the number 1 spot in Google for the top dating keywords above top dating sites like eHarmony.
Matt, obviously proud of his accomplishment, went on to explain in great detail exactly how he did it during SES San Jose in 2007. Something he would probably later wish he had just shut the f**k up about.
Mingle2 was later sold to JustSayHi, a competing website, due to Matt’s success. Next Internet, the parent company of JustSayHi, later asked
Matt to swap out some of the quiz and widget links with keywords like “Cash Advance” and point to some of their lead-gen websites.
It was a swap that did not go unnoticed. As a result widget links became an issue that Google felt had to be addressed immediately.
The fallout cost Matt all of his properties’ rankings, which was the success of his technique to begin with, but that was not all. It also
caused many big companies to lose millions of dollars when Google put an eye on widgets and the links they contained.
The Ambitious marketers want to increase their reputation and respect within their industry, at any cost.
The Ambitious are the people who scare me the most. They will gladly give away any tricks or tips they can so that they are seen as a leader in the industry. They often do not care about the industry or the people who work around them.
The recent Lyndoman situation is a perfect example. Lyndoman is a social media marketer who was well respected among the top social media marketers. He created a social media linkbait for a client that went to the front page of Digg and was even
mentioned on a television news broadcast.
Needless to say, the linkbait was a huge success. Lyndoman probably would have gone on to continue to do more linkbaits for the client, if he had only learned to shut the f**k up.
Lyndoman decided to brag about the campaign and announced to everyone that the article was actually false. “Absolutely-completely-utterly a fabrication, a tissue of lies weaved in a fog of deceit. Or what most people would call satire.” In addition to admitting the content was false, he also put his client out in the open to be judged on his behalf. An action that later drew the attention of Matt Cutts from Google, who commented, “
This resulted in multiple problems for Lyndoman and the social media marketing industry.
Although we have seen a major change in the way corporations have begun to embrace social media, there are many who are still concerned about losing control of their image, message, and reputation. The control they are accustomed to with traditional media doesn’t exist online. As a result,
corporations are afraid that one of the extreme or edgy content pieces marketers convince them to do. They are concerned it will hurt their reputation and business.
Unfortunately, this incident could hurt the entire industry by making clients wary of participating in social media. It will also impact the way social communities perceive content submitted by marketers.
Lyndoman admitted later, after losing the client and gaining a lot of negative media exposure, that the short lived fame from exposing the success of his campaign was not worth it. He even decided to remove the original post from his site saying, “At the end of the day it did more harm than good discussing publicly such effective tactics.”
As social media and online marketing continues to grow, we will see an even stronger desire for marketers to expose tricks and techniques in exchange for potential fame and recognition. In an effort to eliminate the chance for this to occur, an increasing number of top internet marketers have stopped talking about their secrets completely. The days of buying someone a beer and having them share their tricks are being replaced by smaller behind the scenes groups. They are increasingly becoming very cautious with who they allow in their circle of trust.
Even the newly crowned “rockstars” can still make mistakes, especially when they don’t realize the power of their voice. A great example is Jeremy “Shoemoney” Schoemaker. Shortly after becoming widely known online for affiliate marketing, he published a picture of a very large adsense check sent to him by Google.
Through blog posts and his radio show Net Income, Jeremy explained how he was able to make large amounts of money from the ringtone industry. This caused a lot of people to get into the ringtone market and drove up the keyword costs in PPC engines. Something he admits probably cost him a lot of money.
I have a lot of respect for each of the people referenced in this article. They are all experienced internet marketers, who at one point or another made a mistake. I use their examples only because they had a large impact on the internet marketing industry as a whole.
Everyone brags and everyone shares secrets, but you need to pick and choose the right time and place to do so. If you really want to gain the respect and reputation in the industry and your peers, save the bragging and ambition for the face to face encounters.
When it comes to disclosing your techniques and tricks, just shut the f**k up already!
Brent Csutoras is an internet marketing consultant, who specializes in social media, viral and search engine marketing.
November 13, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Now you can tell anybody you want online to STFU. Leave your rant at YouSTFU.com
November 5, 2009 at 4:59 am
Valuable thoughts and advices. I read your topic with great interest.
October 29, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Hmm… I read blogs on a similar topic, but i never visited your blog. I added it to favorites and i’ll be your constant reader.
August 8, 2009 at 8:33 pm
Umm….
I’m sure we’re all glad shoemoney still shares at least some of his marketing secrets!
June 10, 2009 at 8:06 pm
Disclosing some of your secrets doesn’t seem wise but things change so you are going to have to adjust anyways. Why not share?
April 27, 2009 at 11:21 am
This is a good article, which reflects on the flawed human EGO. Everybody is so concerned with how people view them that they tend to make these types of mistakes. This is nothing new and certainly never going to go away. In fact, this flaw is the reason our economy is so wonderful today.
February 14, 2009 at 10:05 pm
The four SEO marketing personalities you describe all have one thing in common – ambition so strong that it can be considered hubris. You see when you go out on the stump in front of your peers and claim to have discovered something great – you open yourself up in horrible ways. Anyway, I always look at things in the total picture. These so called gurus are just stuck in their own tunnel vision technique. They miss the other aspects of SEO – right down to their peril. And in the end they just stand out like a mad black hatter.
December 15, 2008 at 2:53 am
Holy cow, that’s a well written articles. That should do good in life, too. I bet.
December 12, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Good Article..
November 17, 2008 at 1:24 pm
This article changed my life. Not joking… I would rate this article the Best of 2008.
Who’s with me?
November 7, 2008 at 11:15 am
Way to bring it Brent
October 8, 2008 at 7:38 pm
But, as soon as you tie a recurring revenue affililate program to ANY new offering, you can expect people to a) market it hard b) market it grey c) market it to their Mom.
It’s a a paradox. Learn the best secrets of the web, but do no tell anyone or try and make money from it.
If a socially-conscious SEO tool wants to stay on the D/L, don’t offer cash money, recurring, for every new sign up.
June 12, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Very controversial post. I have seen video – http://www.seomoz.org/blog/smx-whiteboard-interviewsshut-the-up-with-brent-csutoras
it is quite interesting.
June 12, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Balance being the 95% that is fairly straightfoward and common knowledge and should bring success to sites operating in less competitive niches vs the 5% of secret tricks that can make even the most competitive niches accessible to your clients….
June 8, 2008 at 9:52 pm
Totally agree with this article. Making money online is one thing. Just spouting out your business practices is another. We have a shitload of tactics that I would even try to blog about. I might tell them to a few trusted friends that need some help, but otherwise, I consider them trade secrets.
June 8, 2008 at 9:13 am
Interesting article. Thanks for the comprehensive write up. Definitely food for thought.
June 7, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Many thanks for this comprehensive, informative and, at least for me, eye opening article about something most of us new marketers, especially those who, like me, are about to launch their own blogs, know precious little about: knowing when enough is enough.
Some of what you say tells me that instead of trying so hard to become the ‘prophet’ or undisputed authority in your niche, it’s better to stay open and objective, and learn a little from others first. After, you can shut the f !! up…
June 7, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Many thanks for this comprehensive, informative and, at least for me, eye opening article about something most of us new marketers, especially those who, like me, are about to launch their own blogs, know precious little about: knowing when enough is enough.
Some of what you say tells me that, instead of trying so hard to become the ‘prophet’ or undisputed authority in your niche, it’s better to stay open and objective, and learn a little from others first.
June 7, 2008 at 5:41 am
Aaron Wall and his SEOBook do have a lot of good information. To stay ahead of the pack seems to be the greatest challenge.
June 6, 2008 at 8:44 am
me too:) How can they create these kind of things.
June 5, 2008 at 9:13 am
It’s funny. That check was one of the main things that got me motivated to make online money. I’ve learned a lot since but I think I would compare it more to “maturing” instead of learning. Facts can be memorized but it takes a certain level of online maturity to make real money.
June 4, 2008 at 7:55 pm
I love how all those black hat seo guys tell all. They are just asking for a google ban.
June 4, 2008 at 1:17 pm
from where you get such images ?
any copyright problems
June 4, 2008 at 10:55 am
All I can do is nod and agree with many of the points in here. Successful strategies should only be shared with the client and then only after going through the possible pitfalls, shared with the industry.
June 4, 2008 at 8:50 am
Its fine to share stuff that doesn’t impact your strategic advantage.. But to brag about your stuff that can hurt you is usually ego overcoming common sense.
June 4, 2008 at 5:50 am
Gr8 image, Jeremy!
June 4, 2008 at 5:36 am
That would be why I used the word balance.
June 4, 2008 at 5:20 am
for the simple fact – when u share things, things would be shared with you.
STFU wud make people hungry and might increase Black hats..
people want to build a reputation, so in case when someone comes up with something freaky, he lets me know about it… cz i just proved that i am not among the lessers nd if he share things with me i will validate it..
June 4, 2008 at 4:07 am
That’s right but it’s good to share, this way you keep your brain working to find new things
June 4, 2008 at 1:36 am
Many times secrets are shared unintentionally without thinking about the consequences,,,
June 4, 2008 at 12:26 am
People love to share their success. It is not only about Internet. People talk about business success, military secrets, cheating… Remember what happened when Monica told her friend about Bill Clinton. We all know what happened.
June 3, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Wise people think all they say, fools say all they think.
June 3, 2008 at 8:37 pm
There are a lot of times I wish I just STFU. Some with regards to business and others with regards to the personal life
It’s tough sometimes to know what you should and shouldn’t say and how much info about your techniques you want to release.
~Terry
June 3, 2008 at 7:31 pm
The image is priceless… very good points
June 3, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Wow, that is so true.
Take the advice of the Godfather and don’t tell people what your thinking.
Good advice.
June 3, 2008 at 6:59 pm
I mostly agree with this article. There’s some balance to be maintained as in most of life issues. For instance, if you are using some MMO technique which is not black-hat, but takes advantage of a SE loophole, you MUST STFU 1) because if it gets noticed by SE’s personnel you are losing that source of income for sure (and it will be noticed sooner than later) 2) because even if you are trying to help other people, making that technique widespread known, won’t help them at all in the end 3) because in case you are aware that technique is not goint to work soon, it would be unethical to make money out of selling that information (something which a lot of Guru’s do BTW).
June 3, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Golf clap
Too much info always kills the golden goose
June 3, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Hmm. Very very true post. I like how you included yourself at the end. Hahahaha.
~Jony
June 3, 2008 at 4:26 pm
exactly, he created a virus and had it spread across the world. the virus mimicked normal web surfing for users, but the traffic tended to go to nextpimp alot and click on ads. this was done back in the day before google had more advanced algorithms in their logging to detect fraud, that is why he doesn’t make as much through them now (or recommend them) — atleast that is an interesting made up story…
June 3, 2008 at 4:25 pm
that image is awesome! i’m stealing it!
June 3, 2008 at 3:19 pm
In that occasion, Youre quiet right
June 3, 2008 at 3:18 pm
This will never stop. People never know when to draw the line and never will.
June 3, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Knowing were to draw the line is often very difficult. When people ask you got to show that you know, but how much!. Great post
June 3, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Just curious; why in your article you have f**k when FUCK is written in big red letters in your (unattributed) giant .jpg image at the top of the article? Too many fucks for your sensitive audience?
June 3, 2008 at 2:21 pm
I have noticed that many sites are a lot more tight-lipped than they previously were…it seems the lessons are being learned and a lot of the newer tips and examples are more vague than some of the older ones.
June 3, 2008 at 2:14 pm
That is a great post! I really enjoyed it! I am always a big fan of when somebody allows a little bit of criticism of themselves!
Show, isn’t this blog the only thing you do?
June 3, 2008 at 1:46 pm
The fact is, you can share your secrets until the cows come home but generally (as in GENERALLY), MOST folks who learn them lack the initiative to actually put them into action.
That’s why MMO folk will often tell what they’ve done – their customers want the same results without putting in the same effort.
I share many of my successful techniques and stay quite closed-mouthed about current works in progress. It balances out nicely.
Data points,
Barbara
June 3, 2008 at 1:27 pm
That’s something everyone struggles with big and small alike …
nice post
June 3, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Brent,
Great to see you blog here.
That was a post that I am sure a lot of people were glad – not- to have seen their names in
June 3, 2008 at 1:24 pm
About F**king time someone said this!
June 3, 2008 at 1:06 pm
One thing I need to clarify: I didn’t lose my rankings because I did an interview last summer about my widget/quizzes. I lost my rankings in January when a reporter from the guardian saw one of my blog widgets and got upset when there was a “payday loan” link embedded in the HTML. After that I was reported to google and we were penalized. Bragging had nothing to do with it.
June 3, 2008 at 12:39 pm
This article focuses on no disclosing gray/black hat techniques. Shoe made that adsense revenue 100% white hat.
June 3, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Your are so on the ball that it makes me cry. But thats the nature of the internet. So take advantage of an unknown black hat technique before it is uncovered.
June 3, 2008 at 12:23 pm
its fine… people like Jim think all I have or have ever done is blog lol..
June 3, 2008 at 12:13 pm
You really believe Shoemoney would not have found a way to make success… seriously? You can always pinpoint a mistake and say that it made something good but in a long window mistakes often come out positive and good moves turn out bad. I think there is probably quite a few other factors that make it turn out that way.
June 3, 2008 at 11:57 am
Interesting article and some people DO need to STFU. However, sometimes talking too much can get you noticed.
June 3, 2008 at 11:19 am
Brilliant article. I have people busting my chops for not revealing everything I do and I’ll probably be referencing this article now.
June 3, 2008 at 11:18 am
if everyone stfu the internet wouldnt exist
June 3, 2008 at 11:12 am
actually it was disclosed in another post. its one of the most read posts.
June 3, 2008 at 11:12 am
The check was without a doubt a huge tipping point for this blog. It was really the first time an site talking about making money online actually showed a little of their cards.
I think the massive success story of AuctionAds was also another big tipping point.
The single biggest thing I have over my competitors is I have done what most of them talk about doing.
June 3, 2008 at 11:09 am
If you can’t think outside the box far enough to get in on something before I run it into the ground, sucks to be you.
June 3, 2008 at 11:08 am
everyone wants a voice is why!
June 3, 2008 at 11:08 am
I agree and disagree with what you are saying. I actually love that ShoeMoney talks about fighters.com like he did with auctionads.com. I do not think many CEO’s would walk us through development/marketing/launching everything until selling a multi million dollar company.
So while you might not care about MMA with fighters.com I think his marketing techniques so far have been pretty ingenious and can be applied elsewhere.
June 3, 2008 at 11:05 am
Great article Brent!
June 3, 2008 at 11:00 am
I couldn’t agree more. What pisses me off most is that the people who go and brag and get noticed ruin the tactic for everyone else who was smart enough to keep it to themselves.
There’s nothing quite like killing the goose that laid the golden egg. In my experience, SEO’s are the worst at this.
June 3, 2008 at 11:00 am
I agree!
STFU
I think it’s because they need to tell world about their success, they need, they don’t care about money
June 3, 2008 at 10:57 am
Brian, saying “only after you’re sure you’ve cornered the market… and no one could take it from you” is the same thing as saying “never.” You’re always at risk from competition and it’s never a good idea to disclose your methods unless you’re going to make even more money by doing so (selling them as a course etc).
June 3, 2008 at 10:55 am
By showing the check, he didn’t disclose HOW he had gotten the check. He just proved that he knew what he was talking about.
This is completely different.
June 3, 2008 at 10:43 am
Wow… i was turned into deep hollow by that. STFU! :-X
June 3, 2008 at 10:27 am
Most people go to so-called internet gurus and rockstars blogs to get something out of it. Let’s not lie to ourselves, the main reason is to learn to make money. I could care less about a fighters.com or any of that other shit. In order to keep readers coming back you have to give them something. I think this is why some guys run off at the mouth. They have to give the readers something to keep them happy and coming back for more. Right now I feel like most of these blogs are just selling products and bragging.
June 3, 2008 at 10:25 am
I got the hint. I saw it for the first time and its really rememberable like your post.
June 3, 2008 at 10:13 am
“STFU!” I like that term!
June 3, 2008 at 9:52 am
thats a good article and point..from now on i will shut up…
June 3, 2008 at 9:26 am
I suppose that if you want to break into the “make money” niche, you’d want to get credibility by releasing an idea that worked for you and don’t mind sharing. So there’s still use for blabbering on techniques.
June 3, 2008 at 9:24 am
Really great article, it’s refreshing to read some original content like this from time to time.
The only thing I wanted to comment on, is that although the AdSense check may have lost him a lot of money in ringtones, I think it opened a lot of opportunities for the blog in terms of revenue (maybe nowhere near as much) as well as networking (which may potentially have lead to much more revenue).
I obviously can’t answer this for shoemoney, but I tend to think that he doesn’t regret posting that photo even though he lost money on his campaigns.
June 3, 2008 at 9:20 am
Wow, that’s a long post. I feel a little passion in that one.
June 3, 2008 at 9:09 am
Very nice examples. I remember a gentleman that was giving away a mod rewrite script that made all of your URLs more search engine friendly. Eventually he had to start selling it to stop having it be so widely used. He should have STFU and kept it for himself as long as possible.
June 3, 2008 at 9:05 am
Wow,t his was an amazing thought provoking article that left me speachless. You’re right, sometimes its better to STFU. Afterall we all want fame but at what cost?
Once again,
Great post…
June 3, 2008 at 9:04 am
Why share secrets with your competition? Whether you agree or not, if you are not a part of my inner circle you are my competition. Doesn’t mean that I don’t like you, just business is business.
However…you can use your opps as a means for whatever boost you need…traffic, authority, respect etc.
I’ve actually been following several influential mmo guys for a minute and have scratched my head when they share what they share but also have to be thankful they have or wouldn’t be doing some of the things I’m doing or aware of the steps I took to get started.
Recently I found a glitch in a system that was being promoted by everyone. I thought about sharing it to grab some attention, use the traffic, and take advantage. Since I knew I wouldn’t have made any money directly from the glitch but could have used the attention, I figured I’d tell the company instead, except my “i owe you one” and feel good about my intentions…I didn’t even get a thank you from the guy.
I realized no matter how big the smile or how much bulls@#$ some marketer feeds the intehweb, I don’t always believe their hype and it’s each person for themselves (circle). Guess my point is there are some things to share and some to hold onto. I’m to busy to be worried about who thinks I’m tha smardess, to much of a loner to be worried about being kewl and will always say f@$k the Jones. I don’t have to show anyone my checks or tell you about what kind of car I drive…You’ll see it when I pull up.
Great post!
June 3, 2008 at 9:01 am
“a few months after you’ve used them” isn’t a great idea if they are actually working for you. There are so many SEO methods that aren’t being discussed anymore, which is why sites like Search Engine Guide only talk about social media profiles rather than how to actually improve your rankings or SEO quality.
I’m surprised you didn’t mention Aaron Wall, the king of handing out secrets.
June 3, 2008 at 8:58 am
I am often amazing why people dont STFU. They brag and brag and i listen and listen
You can make good money from these guys!
After all most of the existing blogs are about some success-stories or tricks, If everyone would stop bragging, there wouldnt be many blogs left.
June 3, 2008 at 8:31 am
good post and some good points regarding one person showing off about an achievement and lot’s of people getting burnt because of it. I personally think if Lyndon hadn’t of blogged about how he lied and got a load of links, he could of carreid on lying and getting a load of links! lol
June 3, 2008 at 8:25 am
People will never STFU — because everyone wants these two things “Fame and Money”. Money does not work on its own. If you have the money, you want the fame — so you’ll do anything to get it. Even risk losing the money. Giving out info / showing up to big events — Its very rare to get someone who has money, but dosnt want the fame
June 3, 2008 at 8:10 am
I partially agree, and i’ve learned this the hard way unfortunately…
However, i agree with the others. Although shoemoney lost money by being open/posting the check. He made money indirectly, through the blog, and through the opportunities it made. It’s a catch 22 situation, but i bet it’s not as bad an idea as it sounded
June 3, 2008 at 8:09 am
interesting post. I guess there are two sides to every coin…
June 3, 2008 at 8:05 am
if shoemoney never posted the check, he never would’ve gotten as much attention as quickly and he wouldn’t be making $30-40k a month off this blog. sure he could’ve been making more on ringtones but for how long?
the point is that it’s understandable if showing the check had a purpose, just like disclosing secrets and all that other stuff, but if it’s just bragging then you’re shot yourself in the foot
June 3, 2008 at 8:03 am
yep. keep it to yourself is good advice – it is called competitive advantage or protecting intellectual property in the real world.
The ego junkies for sure won’t be able to. your article probably won’t be as well received by this audience who is trying to squeeze every little nugget out of jeremy
June 3, 2008 at 7:59 am
Also, the adsense check “made” this blog. Shoemoney wouldn’t be anything like it is today without that check so saying it was a mistake is simply not true and you know it
June 3, 2008 at 7:57 am
Basically, you are telling people in the know to only talk to other people in the know.
The rich get richer while the rest of us (your readerbase included) just keep feeding off the scraps you throw us.
This article is nothing more than a “please don’t tell people how we make money”.
June 3, 2008 at 7:48 am
Something I also have a really hard time understanding. You find a good idea and then tell the whole world about it! What the hell?!
June 3, 2008 at 7:48 am
I suppose you could disclose some of your stuff only after your sure you’ve cornered the market for that particular subject and no one could take it from you.
June 3, 2008 at 7:46 am
Come plurk with us
June 3, 2008 at 7:43 am
Brent, great article. That is sage advice, and I couldn’t agree more. There needs to be a balance between sharing helpful info and keeping the secret sauce under wraps.
June 3, 2008 at 7:20 am
Well, thanks to social media (this blog included) you just got to post your piece of “STFU”-Worthy material on the net- talk about irony.
June 3, 2008 at 7:19 am
i disagree, sometimes its good to disclose tactics but only a few months after you’ve used them