Recently a person made a comment on my blog:
I allready had to deal with the FBI because of some jackass that almost got very hurt at this last ASW because he decided to scam people out of thousands of dollars because his ways of making money were different then thiers……. Yall need to chill on the shittalking because if you cant do it face to face with the readyness to FIGHT till someone is NOT getting up, then shut the mouths.
wow… sounds crazy huh?
But it reminded me just not to long ago getting this email:
I need to speak with you on the phone, its about some chaldean’s in
vegas who are starting to setup a attack at Affiliate Summit West, and I need your
advice in if I should have someone contact the police or let the
person know who they are going to attack.My name is XXXXXXX X
Only reason im sending you this email is because I know that what you
say to some people has a pull effect and I think this could be nipped
in the butt before anything happenes.
Ya Geez… I told the person to email the FBI and also carbon copied Shawn Collins.
Now last year at Affiliate Summit East at the Sagamore hotel there were these 2 guys half naked grabbings ever girls ass that walked by. And if my wife, sister, or daughter would have been one of these girls there would have been a massive problem.
So lately I have been asked a lot why I no longer attend affiliate summits. Well this is basically it. I think I would have had a lot more fun at the affiliate summit back a few years ago when I used to love to get drunk and crazy but that is not really my thing anymore. Mix that in with the fact each time I was asked to speak it was a complete train wreck. Then mix in the death threats, and the fact its kind of become a thug conference … well I just have a hard time justifying paying money to experience that… if that makes any sense.
I know Shawn Collins loves all this controversy and its all good press right? Well I guess until someone dies…
- Comment Likes 
- Comment Dislikes
April 15, 2008 at 11:04 am
Sorry, and these are supposed to be businessmen?
April 2, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Well, I am very scared…
April 1, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Why is it that when people are away from home or on holiday – usually with friends – they think it is ok to act like a moron? Why is that? Its usually guys, and us Aussies are amongst the worst. I would haye for my kids to see people carrying on like a drunken dildo at a business meeting of all things. Fun is good, by why waste your time and money going to something just to get pissed.
March 29, 2008 at 11:11 am
This all sounds like the older days of Rap of west coast vs. east coast. Such a waste of time!
March 26, 2008 at 7:22 pm
hahahahaha and the caller said April Fool! thats a big one though!
March 26, 2008 at 7:18 pm
what happened to both men?
March 26, 2008 at 7:14 pm
is it wickedfire or the members?
March 26, 2008 at 7:13 pm
I tell you how? There would be some serious ass grabbing and fondling and shits!~ lol hahahaha:D
March 26, 2008 at 7:11 pm
yea this post is so damn funny!
March 26, 2008 at 7:09 pm
hahahahahahahahaha oh my goodness! What in God’s name was i looking at and how the hell did i land on this post? geez been laughing like hell!
March 26, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Holy Fuck don’t tell me i fell for this! APRIL FOOL FROM SHOEMONEY! Damn it shoe you are an ass…:Dlol God i cant believe how hard im laughing over here!
March 26, 2008 at 6:47 pm
hahahahahaha a big LOL at ya!
March 26, 2008 at 6:44 pm
hahahahahahaha how about someone putting a bullet through your head then a bullet proof vest would be a coolio! lol
March 26, 2008 at 6:41 pm
not even the dudes grabbing asses but the dudes talking about guns…dude come on ass grabbing is better than a rampage in a gathering like AS!!!!!
March 26, 2008 at 6:36 pm
But seriously is there not always a security check on there? do they just do the summit in the open or in the hall and stuff? come on what is you guys talking abt?
March 26, 2008 at 6:33 pm
holy cow! no one told me that i was missing out on the show here!
March 26, 2008 at 6:32 pm
I guess i would go to ad:tech to promote my social networking site!
March 26, 2008 at 6:26 pm
wait a min wasnt there security guys there?
March 26, 2008 at 6:24 pm
ha i hope no one is going to do anything terrible…Aff Summit shouldnt be attracting horible people it is for aff industry!
March 26, 2008 at 6:20 pm
hahahaha very scared! Im in africa so no summit for me yet! lol
March 26, 2008 at 6:18 pm
I would grab your ass, baby.
March 25, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Looking at most of the photos makes it appear that it’s more of a giant party than anything else.
March 25, 2008 at 7:40 pm
This rant is even more funny after shoes Zivity post.
March 25, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Give me a break, there is no violence at Affiliate Summit. In any group you will find drunken people acting stupid. To avoid that just don’t go to the parties (usually sponsored by 3rd parties, not Affiliate Summit.) I have made many friendships and business partners at Affiliate Summit.
This is all wahh wahh on Shoemoney’s part. He didn’t get the worship he has come to expect from himself and his followers so now he whines. Just because the Summit keynote speaker mocked him. I think he is just trying to badmouth Summit.
Perhaps Shawn and Missy need to look into defamation or slander issues?
If there is no proof of the violence or death threat claims I woudl say so.
If you get threats and fear violence I would venture to say it has nothing to do with Affiliate Summit but rather how you are conducting yourself or who you are associating with.
I have never had one problem at any Affiliate Summit. I have never seen any problems. I do go to the parties, but I guess I don’t invite trouble. You get what you give.
Wickedfire is not partnered with Affiliate Summit. That is stupid. Everyone pretty much who pays can go. I have never once had any troubles with anyone from Wickedfire nor have they acted in any inappropriate way in my presence. But then I don’t open my mouth and ask for it either.
I am however a little pissed that not once has anyone tried to grab my ass at Affiliate Summit.
March 25, 2008 at 11:45 am
A few drunk guys in their early 20’s with big ego’s, or is it a serious thread?
March 24, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Me either, I thought affiliate were just interested in making money and making more money. I know I am.
March 24, 2008 at 3:01 pm
throw a VB developer into a room full of perl or C developers and see what happens…
March 24, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Actually the hotels that host those have openly said they get more trouble from weddings than they do from the porn shows.
March 24, 2008 at 2:48 pm
…I used to love to get drunk and crazy but that is not really my thing anymore. Mix that in with the fact each time I was asked to speak it was a complete train wreck.
Those definitely sound connected to me
And I think that’s the kind of culture that ends up spiraling into violence, whether it’s on the ass-slapping scale or all the way up to planned attacks. I think it’s tied to the “get rich quick” urge, with low impulse control, low sense of cause and effect, and high demand for instant gratification – which unfortunately draws a lot of people toward affiliate marketing. (And those people often drop right back out when they realize it doesn’t work that way – so they don’t have an emotional investment in the community or in keeping it great for everyone.)
March 23, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Yea, that sounds a bit out of hand.
March 23, 2008 at 10:08 am
I know Jeremy and Jon don’t get along but some of these comments about wickedfire are hilarious. It’s like watching fahrenheit 911 internet style.
March 23, 2008 at 9:49 am
Wow, I thought the summit was a place for interaction and making friends. Didn’t know thuggery exist in such manner and thanks for present the ugly side of this glam event.
March 23, 2008 at 9:05 am
oh well, I just playing around for know. some body can give me some suggest about my first site (pertamax blog), thx
March 23, 2008 at 9:02 am
oh well, I just playing around for know. some body can give me some suggest about my first site (pertamax blog)
March 23, 2008 at 4:20 am
Like airlines offten charge security surplus fees, perhaps conference organizers should charge a security fee for extra confidence.
March 23, 2008 at 3:28 am
So weird… Why?
March 22, 2008 at 9:41 pm
what does all this mean?
there’s definitely something wrong with the industry that needs to be addressed.
we go to affiliate summits to learn something, to meet new people in the industry, and to have fun. we don’t go there to get arrested or to have our wife get but slapped.
March 22, 2008 at 5:19 pm
That’s exactly what it is. I’m sure lots of people will link to it.
March 22, 2008 at 5:05 pm
There’s always going to be a few people who act stupid; it doesn’t matter which event.
I still plan on attending ASE08 in Boston.
March 22, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Other than those a-holes in Miami – never seen an issue.
I for one would am not a huge Wickedfire fan either… seem like they would be more at home at the AVN show or something… but have never had physical confrontations with any of them.
March 22, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Carl, those dudes were idiots for sure… but in all honesty, I have been to all but the Cruise to Nova Scotia Affiliate Summit and that was the worst behavior I have seen.
It was clearly a couple of guys hwo were away from Mommy or the Frat House for the first time and didn’t know how to act.
Most of the interactions at Summit – even the parties, are much more positive than this.
This last Summit in Vegas seemed to have turned a bit of a corner. Although it was the biggest show yet (by far) in terms of attendance, there weren’t a ton of big parties that were open to all. There were a lot more very controlled networking events where companies targeted their clients or prospects and actually focused on the Networking.
The industry is growing up –
All of the official Summit events were really nicely done. Propos to Shawn, Missy, Amy and the rest of the team.
March 22, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Affiliate Summit is, in my opinion, the best show in our industry – and there are several great shows. The idea that it attracts an element of violence is absurd.
March 22, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Wow, that is taking it too far. I guess that proves to keep your earning methods legit, and not to scam people.
March 22, 2008 at 8:40 am
wow… great review.. looks like I’ll like it more than I think…
March 22, 2008 at 5:35 am
I’m a 38 yr old husband and father who doesn’t drink, gamble nor go to strip clubs. I often wonder if the networking aspect would even work for me at one of these events based on those facts. I’m cool with hanging out with people who enjoy drinking, but if it crosses over into being drunk, I’m pretty much out the door. If what Shoe says about AS being a Thug Conference is true, I guess it’s not the atmosphere for me.
March 22, 2008 at 12:25 am
Pretty crazy. I wanted to attend my first AS this year at Miami. Kind of sad to hear that, ruins the anticipation for me. Can this all just be overhyped? A few drunk guys in their early 20’s with big ego’s, or is it a serious thread? I’d imagine if it were serious the events would be called off, or their would be a larger police presence.
March 21, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Its very sad to know all about this, Good old days are gone, now its about naked guys and killing threats, ghosh……who need this
March 21, 2008 at 10:00 pm
man, some bloggers need to start paying attention before they link to ridiculous crap like this.
this is like the 3rd time I come to this site through linkbait.
March 21, 2008 at 9:58 pm
I would have to agree about banning wickedfire from any event.
March 21, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Ya Geez…..you sound like you’re in Fargo.
March 21, 2008 at 9:32 pm
They’re famous now though. Mission accomplished.
-JKT
March 21, 2008 at 9:21 pm
After reading many comments on this site, in seems like maybe the “violence” is getting blown out of proportion? (minus the death threats). Perhaps it’s more of the environment- a more rowdy crowd?
March 21, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Wow. I would have never guessed anything like this would go on at an affiliates conference…weird…
March 21, 2008 at 8:56 pm
My thoughts http://www.justinchelf.com/internet-drama-shoemoney/
March 21, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Glad youre in the know Paul – Ive never been To ASW cause im on the wrong side of the world, but I plan on hitting up the US of A for all the affiliate conferences next year
March 21, 2008 at 7:30 pm
“Its just the violence part that is scary.”
This coming from a lover of MMA and the brains behind fighters.com?!? It smells like a linkbait experiment to me;)
March 21, 2008 at 5:37 pm
You mean Amit is NOT a camel? Odd he sure does look the part!
March 21, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Hyder – Stop being a sheep and realize that nobody has even come close to losing their life at AS.
Shoe – Its funny you say that. I’m sure people like Hyder take you seriously. The rest of us on the other hand, those of us that know anything about AM, typically don’t.
March 21, 2008 at 5:34 pm
I wonder how they handle the crowds at the annual adult pornstar awards?
March 21, 2008 at 5:15 pm
I want to say first off I disagree with the statement about the show being dangerous…
As a professional affiliate marketer for years it kills me to say this but I think the bigger problem I personally see is the fact that affiliate summit has become simply a more “dirty show” in general. I don’t think anyone here can deny this statement..I know some of us old timers (such as myself) are very loyal to the show…however with its obvious “partnership” with Wickedfire none of us can deny that they have bit the evil greed apple and are now feeling the repurcussions.
What they don’t realize is the average affiliates are hard working, innovative, and self starting individuals that are out there trying to create a credible industry.
Companies such as Wickedfire belong in the porn industry and when they partner up with heavyweights such as Shawn Collins it degrades our entire industry. That is what we should be talking about.
I fear for my future in this industry if this continues. How am I supposed to look at my family and friends in the eye when I talk about going to a show with supporters of a forum whose sole purpose for existing centers around illegal and/or questionable activities.
If Shawn really cared about the industry and its future he would ban wickedfire from the conference.
Just my 2 cents.
Mike
March 21, 2008 at 4:41 pm
I have to agree with Jeremy Palmer. I’ve been to almost every affiliate summit and not once have I experienced or heard of anyone experiencing any type of violence at all. Occasionally there is a heated debate, but nothing I would ever classify as violence. I would bet that if there were, Shawn and Missy would take care of it.
March 21, 2008 at 4:39 pm
It’s all fun and games till someone loses…their life!
March 21, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Clearly you didn’t attend the same conference I did… the very worst I saw were the occasional booth babe or dude during a cocktail hour that took the “open bar” invitation a bit too seriously.
I can’t imagine violent geeks. I call shenanigans.
March 21, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Would you call this linkbait?
March 21, 2008 at 3:58 pm
wait… you mean people take me serious as a blogger? wtf…
March 21, 2008 at 3:53 pm
As I am planning to attend my first IM conference, hearing this is a bit of a concern. am in Australia and am looking to attend am IM conference in the US which of course which involve considerable time and finanicial investment. I am looking for a high level of professionalism in the presentation of the event which I attend. Can anyone suggest a high quality IM event in the US or otherwise which is would be a good investment of time and money for an IM relative newbie?
March 21, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Looks like the writer of that email is a little racist…
Shoe – I understand this is your blog, and realize that it is were you come to voice your opinion (duh). But I think anyone that has met Shawn knows that he’s a good guy. It baffles me why you’d make such slanderous remarks based on questionable emails…
I may not agree with what you do morally, but as a person and a marketer, I’ve got a great deal of respect for you.
Its statements like this post that makes it hard to take you seriously anymore.
fin.
March 21, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Funny Jeremey that you neglect to mention the num-chuck riot at the last Elite Retreat!
I thought AS West was a solid enough event, though the level of professionalism was all over the map. (How is no one mentioning the latex-clad nurses?) However, I did find it amusing and slightly disconcerting that the well-advised 21+ age limit was such a hot topic. I was disappointed that more than a few kids somehow circumvented it.
March 21, 2008 at 3:31 pm
This is all very far removed from the experience I had at the last affiliate summit. Everyone I met and hung out with was extremely professional and overall the event was the most well organized conference I have been to.
March 21, 2008 at 3:19 pm
I will bring my battle rifle and some grenades and start grabbing ass. I will also try to get some networking in and maybe hit the black jack table. But definitely a lot of ass grabbing. Could I get a vip pass or something to keep from getting banned?
March 21, 2008 at 3:16 pm
well I would like to attend just to get the experience but they dont make any exception to the rules.. I really wanted to attend the one this year in boston
March 21, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Carl – this wasn’t reported to us during the show.
When we found out afterwards, we promptly banned them from future shows.
I was referring to Jeremy’s comments about fights and death threats.
March 21, 2008 at 3:12 pm
“The reality is that there has been no violence at any of the 9 Affiliate Summits.”
Not to be a spoiler but fondling women is called sexual assault. re:violence
March 21, 2008 at 3:07 pm
I went to the Affiliate Summit in Miami and was less than impressed with the professionalism. I wrote about it on my blog http://tinyurl.com/2gm5t5 (no affiliate links or anything). I was just amazed at how much money these companies were throwing out the window by going to the conference and using it as a play date. Guys, you only get to party when the work is done.
When you see a company that sends complete morons across the country to represent them I know that I would not trust my affiliate sales to them.
March 21, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Chaldeans are Iraqi Christians. Most are in areas of Michigan north of detroit, and Canada. I personally don’t get it, but a lot of people in those areas dislike them a lot.
March 21, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Wow I’ve never been to AS but that does sound crazy. Nothing like that happened at JV Alert Live.
The Story Lady of Storyation.com and RondaIsA10.com
March 21, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Maybe all this is, is a Digg experiment.
Or a build-up towards Jeremy’s April fools day post.
March 21, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I have to second with Jeremy Palmer on this one
We attended the last 4 affiliate summits and have been fortunate to find new clients and partners that are with us to this day.
In an internal cost-production review, we found the ROI on attending Affiliate Summit, in terms of new business generated for us as a company, is significantly higher than AdTech and SES.
Some of the greatest minds in the industry make it a habit to attend every single Affiliate Summit event and if you plan your time right (hint: Avoid late night parties. Network like crazy), you’ll find no other conference even comes close. Be a professional, Network and engage others.
Partying after midnight, getting drunk and grabbing ass, is not on the agenda.
March 21, 2008 at 2:23 pm
I know every loves talking crap back and forth but never realized how violent these conferences are!
March 21, 2008 at 1:48 pm
I was surprised by this post (commented earlier) since news of threatening people at AS would have been blogged about everywhere.
March 21, 2008 at 1:46 pm
I think affiliate summit brings all types of people from the lowest to the highest. one because there is a lot of free tickets given out and two The range of companies runs the gammit from fortune 500 to one man show or maybe 3 man shows… so with that it brings in all types of people… I have to agree that AS is more geared for the partying type BUT some of the AS I have had the best networking ops at… so its a tough call… I can understand why you wouldn’t attend but also see the pluses… I don’t drink so i definitely dont go for the partying.
March 21, 2008 at 1:38 pm
I thought it was just us British that liked to drink, get rowdy and fight shoe
.
March 21, 2008 at 1:35 pm
I think it’s the same ole story. A few bad eggs with big mouths and little respect for others. I would venture to say it’s an injustice to characterize the entire industry by the actions of a few immature idiots.
March 21, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Jeremy -
I think it is irresponsible to base your “thug conference” premise on two unsubstantiated sources.
A supposed fight at the last conference with the FBI involved? Funny how I never heard about it – please provide more details. You would think the Rio Hotel and/or the conference organizers would be contacted about it.
And this message re: “chaldean’s”. What was that response from the FBI on that one?
The reality is that there has been no violence at any of the 9 Affiliate Summits.
The closest we’ve come to somebody dying was three years ago when Wayne Porter had a seizure.
The next closest was the first time I tried to ride a Segway in Vegas last month.
The two individuals that hassled women at the Miami show were banned as soon as we heard about it.
March 21, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Sorry if this comment appears like a duplicate. Lost my connection.
I’ve attended the last 5 Affiliate Summit conferences and have never felt threatened. Affiliate Summit is a great place to network and learn.
I think it’s unfair to cast the conference in such a negative light, when it’s clear from your post it’s a handful of people (out of 2,600) actlng like idots. It happens at every show, from Ad:Tech to SES. Why single out Affiliate Summit?
March 21, 2008 at 1:20 pm
I saw that comment and that guy seemed pretty agitated. My attention span for these conferences is limited anyway. They bore me. I find most of the presentations could be about half as long and could use a little more content. If I want to go to vegas I go and hopefully avoid the convention people
March 21, 2008 at 1:18 pm
I’ve been to the last 5 Affiliate Summit’s and I’ve never felt threatened. The conference is well organized, informative, and a great opportunity to network. It’s 1 of 3 events on the calendar that I would consider “can’t miss”.
I think it’s unfair for you to brand the conference with such a negative label, when it’s clear from your post that it’s only a few bad apples acting like dick heads. When you have 2600 people in attendance, you’re bound to have a few idiots in the mix.
March 21, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Wow…. this is some crazy stuff. Surprisingly such serious stuff would happen within an industry like that.
March 21, 2008 at 12:31 pm
ya just wear a bullet proof vest!
March 21, 2008 at 12:26 pm
He probably meant “children” since English was just his 3rd language.
March 21, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Shoe you are one crazy motherf*cker but you keep it real thats why we love you. Hope you realize how many Shawn Collins lovers are going to bash you now
March 21, 2008 at 12:16 pm
I agree. My first one was Affiliate Summit West in Vegas last month and it was very rewarding.
March 21, 2008 at 12:15 pm
I just hadn’t heard anything about the violence until now. Years and years of programming have made me old. I leave parties early these days.
March 21, 2008 at 12:00 pm
I would probably still recommend affiliate summit. Its cheap and there are some good sessions
March 21, 2008 at 11:58 am
Sounds CRAZY for sure – but when you put a bunch of Type A personailities in a single room together… guess what?
This leads me to another question though – if I were to attend my FIRST ever affiliate conference, which one would anyone recommend?
Mark
March 21, 2008 at 11:56 am
I am all for hard core partying… hell last pubcon I played in a poker tournament until 4am then hit 2 strip clubs with friends and got on a plane with no sleep.
Its just the violence part that is scary.
March 21, 2008 at 11:54 am
How many affiliate summits have you been too? Since the wickedfire/affilaite summit merger its been like this.
March 21, 2008 at 11:53 am
I have talked to shawn about it in emails. He has told me that the dudes that were grabbing ass are banned from ever attending again
March 21, 2008 at 11:46 am
I didn’t notice anything too crazy at ASW08, but maybe I just wasn’t hanging with the hard core party crowd or something. The fact is that at most of these events that involve a good number of twenty-somethings, there will be a percentage of people who are wilder than the majority, and there will often be someone who got too drunk and did something horrific or something. I agree, though… If an ass-grabber got my wife, there would be blood shed and I wouldn’t stop her, either. =)
March 21, 2008 at 11:46 am
Wow, things are getting pretty serious then. It’s probably going to become a pretty big issue at some point because competition is getting seriously tight and the bitching is almost constant. It’s just greed driving people to do stupid stuff…affiliate marketing online is starting to look really shady….
March 21, 2008 at 11:44 am
Has Shawn Collins ever commented on this? This is the first time I’m hearing about the “thug” attitude at his conference.
March 21, 2008 at 11:42 am
Sounds dangerous. I attended a affiliate marketing show in the UK, and it was terrible, everybody seemed so agressive to grab every penny from the show. I’ve also had threats from people who I refuse to advertise their BANS affiliate link on my other blog :S
March 21, 2008 at 11:42 am
umm what about him calling Amit the “camel” he definatly has said some racist things about indians
March 21, 2008 at 11:40 am
Lots of crazy kids out there with guns. Its probably the law of averages until the wrong crazy one is smacked talk to about Affiliate Summit. I do not want to be there if someone goes on a shooting spree. Do you?
Im sure that people thought a gunman at virginia tech, the omaha mall, and other places were over the top too. How many warning signs do you need though?
March 21, 2008 at 11:36 am
Someone killed? Sure that’s not a bit over the top. Sure there’s a lot of smack talk online from kids but when they get to AS (if they even go) they tend to be a bit more civilised.
March 21, 2008 at 11:36 am
I do not think this was the case… As much as I really don’t care for Jon lets be factual.
As crazy as he is I have never seen Jon make a racist statement about Muslims OR Indians.
March 21, 2008 at 11:32 am
TBH this is the difference between affiliate summit and ad:tech. Ad:tech is where the professionals go.
March 21, 2008 at 11:31 am
If I remember correctly they wanted to kill jon from wickedfire because of his racist statements about muslims and indians.
March 21, 2008 at 11:29 am
I remember those guys grabbing asses. It was totally fricking ridiculas. What was more rediculas was the owner/organizers of affiliate summit encouraging them.
There was a huge outrage on the abestweb forums with details on who those guys were.
http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=91878&highlight=tattoo
March 21, 2008 at 11:27 am
I will be honest I don’t know what the “chaldean’s” are. I just forwarded it on to the proper people.
March 21, 2008 at 11:24 am
Half naked dorks grabbing every girls ass? LOL I guess it must have been their first time away from Mommy and Daddy. What is it with the scumbags in this industry? Affiliate marketing is starting to get down there with organized crime in terms of occupational reputation.
March 21, 2008 at 11:22 am
Why did they want to attack an affiliate summit???
March 21, 2008 at 11:18 am
Its not just the wickedfire guys. The affiliate summit conference seems to attract the trash of the affiliate industry. I have never seen more drunken idiots and will never go again. I am glad you posted this show so other people know.
March 21, 2008 at 11:17 am
Shoe- I was there and when one of the wickedfire guys was bragging he had a gun on him. It made me very uneasy.