Seo Discussion With Danny Sullivan Now Available

by Jeremy Schoemaker on January 23, 2008 · 51 comments



People that are looking for a all out disrespectful brawl do not even bother listening. Also there was a lot of hype leading up to this people saying I said SEO was worthless and all this which is not what i said… I said 95% of SEO people piss me off. Also all you SEO’s who were talking trash about Danny in comments of the last post (which have been deleted and the post is now locked) you should be ashamed of yourself. He has already forgotten more about this industry then you will ever know.

With that said I think it was a really interesting show. You can tell how passionate Danny is about the industry. It was hard to get a word in once he got started. I would not really call it a debate as much as I would call it a interesting discussion about SEO and how to clean up the industry.

All these SEO’s now that are coming out of the woodwork saying they wanted to debate… you had a week to get me your phone numbers.. I got 2 yesterday a few hours before the show and it was not enough time to make it work with webmasterradio. (I work 7am to 4:45 then bust ass home to do the radio show).

Thanks to Danny for coming on the show!

full disclosure

About the author...

– who has written 2895 posts on ShoeMoney.com.

Jeremy "ShoeMoney" Schoemaker is the founder & CEO of the ShoeMoney Blog, Elite Retreat Internet Conference, & the PAR Program. In 2013 Jeremy released his #1 Amazon Best selling Autobiography titled "Nothing's Changed But My Change" - The ShoeMoney Story. Jeremy currently lives in Lincoln Nebraska with his wife and 2 daughters.


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{ 44 comments }

1 Hustle Strategy

This is my next hour or so… Thanks for the post.

2 Scorpiono

Shoe shoe you’re my idol ! I adore the way you say “So…. uhmm.. So.. uhmm..”

3 steve

interesting discussion. i hope to incorporate a few items i learned into my Web site.

4 printnpost

most people are just naive and like to start trouble.. i rem that post you did and i feel it is like the freaking pay per play people that keep tryign to get me to add stupid audio files to the site to make more money…but dispite i want to amke bank..i agree with shoe view of just spend the time to get quality going and the rest will come.

5 gamermk

This is the first time I’ve listened to your radio station and I definitely enjoy it. It helped the afternoon today at work go by that much faster. It was a good discussion between you and Danny, but for future “debates” it’d be kinda nice if there was an agenda of topics up for discussion beyond a single blog post.

6 Keith Cash

I like doing SEO work, dare I mention it. It is ok to get pissed off by SEO people. Pissed Off is the just the other side of LOVE. all emotion is good. I also like marketing, it is fun too.

If your not pissing people off you are not doing anything or so it goes.

Cheers
LOL

7 Alan Johnson

It’s always great to see people as passionate about what they’re doing as Danny, no matter what line of business they are involved in. I have listened to your previous shows as well, tuning in has always been time well spent on my part.

Best wishes,

Alan Johnson

8 Collin - Feed Flare

Ok after listening to this you both seem to agree there is no goverening force for SEO’s why don’t either one of you start one. Stop bitching or defending a trade untill there is a way to govern it.

But ya I do agree any SEO site I have come across seems to suck and never gives you info at all.

One problem that is common and over looked is just teaching people how to work with there system there useing like wordpress.

9 Will

Thanks shoe! been waiting for this.

10 Hustle Strategy

Well worth listening to. I feel that something was gained from the conversation.

11 aRo`

I alway’s enjoyed listening to your show while going to work. Since the new version it’s more difficult to download the podcast as an mp3 anymore.

I wrote a small post on my blog on how you can download the files.

What’s better than shoe’s voice in the morning ? :)

12 TheMobiBlog

Shoe,

Dude I agree with you, though it really pains me too!

Most of these shits are fake ass, broke dick dog jokers, just reakin havoc on google and the engines with there crafted junk.. Heres a new one a picture of a tree or a cat surrounded by adsense banners ….holy shit what shit spam…

Most seo’s are full of shit and are no it alls about nothing.
In the social media side most who claim to be seo’s are spammers and or robot masters paid to get link juice for some shmeckle’s post..

I don’t normally give a crap about how people make money, but I do believe the imposter seo’s give the great seo’s a bad name.

The bad seo’s also force advertisers ( with seo budgets) to fumble seo usually using rookie staff , sadley to prevent from being ripped off from say”an affiliate style adsence spammer who claims to be an seo..expert .

I get pounded all day from india.. Hi im vinny,lol the italians are in india now yeah”
I am doing seo experting will you be liking me to tell you to how i too can be fixing your site…very cheap..lmfao
they don’t know how to reply to my usual fuck off jerk off..So they usually thank me. and they always call me SIR .haha

I feel bad for vinny the seo from india cause that bitch needs a bowl of rice.. The people from home that are ex-cold call marketers now seo or snake oil salesmen
I have no mercy for..

13 Mike

Good job, Shoe & Danny. ;-)

Shoe… you mentioned your one site ranking #2 for ringtones, but unless I’m missing something, it looks like it disappeared from the results. You serp tool showed 77, but I don’t see it anywhere in the first few hundred.

14 Jeremy Schoemaker

ya that was 2 year ago ;)

15 Joe

Great discussion. You both got your points across and it sounded like you both understood each other’s perspectives. And good education on the state and history of the SEO industry for newbies like me. I thought Danny made really good points on both the pros and cons of having a governing body on SEO agencies…

16 SlightlyShadySEO

I have to say, aside from the obvious(heh), that was a much more graceful interview than the events leading up to it.

17 Ryan

Awesome, glad I could inspire this radio show. =D

18 alanj878

Very controversial one day I think i am going to have a podcast interview about investing on my blog http://livelymoney.blogspot.com and probably make a statement that gets newspaper attention

19 RacerX

Really interesting points on the show. The issue is most major web eTailers are dumping serious money into this now and can game the results more then ever.

20 Melvin

hey why do many people hate Mr.Sullivan? can someone tell me why?

21 Krunal Chauhan

I agree with Danny, Most of Good SEO’s do not have time to go and surf around.. they are buzy with their work and their client.. and do not approach for project .. clients approach them for work

22 APD

Saying there is only 10 people who could help a new company with SEO is pretty ignorant. Just because YOU don’t know more than 10 people who are worth a damn doesn’t mean anything. The SEO world is bigger than your personal circle of acquaintances.

I agree that there are a lot of bad “SEOs” out there, but I would argue that a lot of the good ones aren’t hanging out at conferences, on forums and blogs (hanging on Matt Cutt’s every word)… So your sample would seem to be skewed.

I go to a conference once every couple of years, you and I have never met, I’m too busy to waste my time at conferences hearing the same tired presentations over and over.

I do think the “SEO Community” is pretty lame — at some point you have to quit talking and start doing. I don’t even like to call myself an “SEO” and cringe when I’m introduced that way.

23 George Hopkin

Really important point from Danny: SEO people *must* know the particular industry of the particular client they’re working for.

What works for a retail operation doesn’t necessarily work for a news site, for example.

Extensive specialist knowledge of an industry and how it can play nice with search engines has a value, providing any benefits/improvements can be quantified.

24 SlightlyShadySEO

I had this same question. He’s an excellent marketer, and certainly seems to be a decent person(though I’ve had little direct interaction with him)…odd

25 Erica DeWolf

Great, well worth it listen. You and Danny both make valid points, and it seems that it has been decided the post that this “debate” is circled around got so much attention because the point was poorly communicated and readers misunderstood and sounded insulted, when what you really mean was that 95% (or a related number) of those that consider themselves SEO experts are NOT experts and won’t be able to help you as the 5% of real experts can.

Well worth it to listen to. Thanks Shoe!

26 Bob Bohana

Shoe’s got a point. SEOs that are worth their salt:

1. Can quantify their previous work, and project potential on a new project

ie…X search referral inventory was created through Y SEO improvements which resulted in Z $ of actual sell through or conversions. If you can’t predict potential for a client or company, you’re missing a fundamental business skill that is required for good consulting or inhouse SEO work.

2. The best SEOs can do more than SEO. You should be able to integrate efforts with a paid campaign, mesh with all types of affiliate and offline marketing/branding, manage implementation projects, measure and report success and financials, inform whether a SEO project/fix is essential or can be cast aside in light of other business concerns, etc etc. All manner of skills unrelated to SEO specificially. It might be true that 90+% of SEOs can’t cut this.

I feel like all Shoe means is that you should bring something to the table other than just say: fix your title tags and add some keywords. The best in the industry do much more than just SEO specifically.

27 Alan Johnson

I’ve always enjoyed listening to his shows and I have to say, this one didn’t make an exception, definitely worth taking into consideration.

28 Alan Johnson

Exactly, it is extremely important that the person optimizing a certain website is knowledgeable as far as the industry in question is concerned, otherwise he/she is starting out with an important disadvantage.

29 wallpapers

Very nice I liked it, great to hear about what people think about what SEO are. I think SEO/Internet marketer is something that should be included as one. Just IMO, as I do consider myself both. Love reading your blog!

30 IamJustinM

Haha, I stopped getting frustrated with fly-by-night SEOs and business owners who fall for their shit a long time ago.

31 Ron Hands

Great discussion and I think the word Jeremy is looking for in the SEO industry is accountability. But this does not apply to just the SEO industry. There are many industries past and present that have had the same issue to deal with. They talked about certification or some governing body but it still boils down to a system for accountability. A strong Association of SEOs with some type of testing/certification would do wonders for their reputation and help separate to good from the bad. As some on who is looking for a good SEO I certainly would pick one that was certified by a known legitimate association.

32 gamermk

Shouldn’t it be obvious. Some people blindly hate internet marketers. Danny not only is one of these people, but also defends these people and he does it well.

33 Adam

The problem with forming an SEO certification/association is that SEO is basically based on guessing the algorithm that google and other various search engines use. Not only that but it can change in an instant. It would be too hard.

34 Tutorial Zone

That is interesting. I guess all the fact come down to one thing which says, you cant get GARUNTEED results, you can be promised but not always will they be delivered.

35 doralgork

Folks, you’ve got to read “Track Amazon’s 30-day refund guarantee”

http://digg.com/software/Track_Amazon_s_30_day_refund_guarantee_with_Apnoti

This is really outrageous stuff and the best I ever read about the thing.

Check out the reviews about this: http://bargains-hunter.blogspot.com

It’s not theories but carefully researched hard facts.

Cheers

————-

36 wallpapers

” You cant get GARUNTEED results ”

This is not true, a good SEO can bring guaranteed results. Any search keyword is possible if the SEO knows what they are talking about ;)

37 web design chennai

thanks for your info.

38 Web Site Promotion Firm

Thank Shoe for discussion.
With white hat SEO you can get good result that will stay forever.But once you get the result you have to do SEO regular.

39 Johnny

Excellent news, I want to learn SEO news

40 Hank Novielli

hey I really enjoyed your blog and the posts. I will bookmark this site and return.

41 Outsourcing India

Thanks Danny

Its Really very interesting point from you Danny, Nice to know about what people think about what SEO’s or Internet Marketers are

42 link building strategies

WOW just what I was looking for. Came here by searching for social network study

43 saminna

good blog for seo

44 Web Developer

Nice Information Provided. Very Helpful. Thank You

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