Danny Sullivan Stepping Up To Defend Expert SEO’s

by Jeremy Schoemaker on January 22, 2008 · 36 comments

UPDATE: the show has been posted here… but it doesnt appear to be working =(

After my post last week on how I dislike 95% of “SEO Experts” many people talked but few stepped up to my challenge of coming on the radio show and talking about the issues.

Well the godfather of SEO doesn’t back down from anyone and he will be on the show tonight live at 5pm CST on webmaster radio. If you listened to Danny’s Search Cast the other day you heard him go off on a little rant about my post. It should be a interesting show.

BTW it was mentioned that this was just a attempt to get more people to listen to my show so I could make more money. I just want to be clear I get absolutely no money out of doing the show. All of the advertiser money goes directly to webmasterradio.fm. I receive no compensation. I do the show because i enjoy doing it. Webmasterradio does have a subscription program… again I receive none of that revenue. I just want to be very clear on that.

All of my programs are free to listen to live and when I post them on here.

full disclosure

About the author...

– who has written 2895 posts on ShoeMoney.com.

Jeremy "ShoeMoney" Schoemaker is the founder & CEO of the ShoeMoney Blog, Elite Retreat Internet Conference, & the PAR Program. In 2013 Jeremy released his #1 Amazon Best selling Autobiography titled "Nothing's Changed But My Change" - The ShoeMoney Story. Jeremy currently lives in Lincoln Nebraska with his wife and 2 daughters.

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1 RacerX

I really like listening to them afterward. I don’t really get the whole if you make money on it it is evil thing.

You are investing your time. I have no qualms about you getting paid for it if you were!

2 How To Rule The World

looking forward to hearing he has to say about SEO. Also can you ask him what he thinks on the idea of SEO 2.0 blogged about by http://seo2.0.onreact.com/.

3 Selfpreneurs.com

Looks like there’s going to be some heated exchanges … Shoe I’m pretty sure by now you’ve picked up a few MMA moves

4 Blackbeard

Shoe, I’m glad you got Danny Sullivan to do your show, at least he knows enough to be able to defend the SEO profession in an admirable way. I agree with you that 95% of “SEO Experts” are a huge joke. All you have to do to be an “expert” is to pretend to be one. The real good SEO people are worth their weight in gold and can’t be found in a $200 search engine submission package.

Then again, I think you could make an argument that the majority of sites do NOT need to hire a SEO. They need to do real, old-fashioned marketing and advertising to get their name out there. SEO can help a bit, but taking the hundreds or thousands of dollars and putting it towards PPC, PR, and other advertising would be a better way to jump start a site than waiting for organic traffic to come your way.

5 Alan Johnson

I will be tuning in, as it seems that we have quite a productive debate ahead of us. It would have also been interesting to see what Rand Fishkin has to say, maybe you could invite him over in the near future and as well.

6 Davide Di Cillo

damn i have a meeting at 6pm EST… you need to post it on your blog for us unlucky ones :)

7 David Wallace

Sweet! Going to throw some popcorn in the microwave and tune in. :-)

8 Buy Website

Guess I missed the show. SEO is awesome and constantly changing. I will have to read the previous post and see if there is a recording of this show.



9 Hustle Strategy

My comments were “they were well defended in the posts. they don’t need to give shoe more by being on the radio show.” I was not referring to money, but rather to attention. While you might not get directly paid there are many reasons why it helps build your brand and name (not to mention you can name drop almost anything you want). The larger the name you have on the show the more attention you draw. It was a no win for you to call out people, you look like the man if no one comes and if someone does show up you get attention. Lets say you are featured in Forbes magazine, do you get paid, no. Can it boost your brand? At this point your are just marketing on your blog and some of your other ventures. Like it was said above, I have no qualms about you doing your thing and you getting paid for whatever. I do come for content though (along with entertainment and motivation) and get frustrated when all threads are heat getters/attention whore post/affiliate links/etc… I pointed out the gem today and was very happy to see it. ;)

10 Suzanne

Anyone else seen shoemoney as dr evil?


Just ran across this doing a google image search thought I would share!

11 Tyler

You may not make any money, but you do build… or perhaps destroy brand equity from the show.

12 Cyrus

Sheesh, you’d think making money was a bad thing….it’s only part of your name.

13 TheWalrua

I was working with a SEO on a previous site, before TheWalrus.biz, and the guy was a joke. He talked a big game but delivered nothing.

Good post

14 Sunglasses Auctions

Good on him for stepping up!

15 Bathroom Hero

be sure to post the archive link. i want to listen to it.

16 Bathroom Hero

BTW, wrestlers.net sold for $7,500 at snapnames live an hour ago. Good luck with the fighters project.

17 Tech

It should be an interesting show. At least he had the balls to step up.

18 Will

WIll def check this out :D

19 Will

like hugging on the ground for 10 mins? nah jk :P

20 Melvin

Whew.. I tip my hat to Danny Sullivan for defending SEO’s =)

21 web proxy

I hope the working link to the radio is working soon. It would definitely be an exciting show to check out!

22 Search◊ Engines Web

Obviously, no one had the courage to debate SearchEnginesWEB – cause’ if anyone reads a particular Google blog , they all know by now……….


YOU WILL BE BLOWN TO SMITHEREENS, Traumatized and Tortured – to the point of becoming a lifeless, brain dead Ameoba, once SearchEnginesWeb gets focused :-o

23 Miz Hizzy Fitz

FYI: http://www.sethgodin.com has a job opening on the Squidoo team. He’s offering a $3000 finders fee.

24 FireflySEO

Hi Shoe,

I reviewed your show last nigh.


Allan Stewart

25 Affiliate Confession

I’d like to hear the show. I hope they get it fixed soon.

26 Affiliate Confession

You might want to start with a better design of the site you have listed there.

27 Erica

Can’t wait to hear what Mr. Sullivan had to say. I intend to listen to it as soon as the link begins to work…

I admire how you say what you think instead of worrying about offending others. It makes for interesting posts and a healthy discussion about what’s working and what’s not working!


28 Dave

These ‘company men’ like Danny Sullivan and Rand Fishkin are the worst people to follow for SEO advice.

29 Dave

What’s up with WMR? Is this some kind of non-for-profit venture or something like that? They don’t pay their talent so they don’t seem to get any regularity in schedules. Shoemoney used to be pretty timely, but not so much lately. The only ones that do a regular schedule are the SEO 101 guys….and the bad thing about that is they all suck. haha

30 POOPeGifts_com

Remember, there are professional SEO that can provide numbers to potential clients. Numbers without client names, or client names with percentages are very common. Client names with exact numbers are NOT common, because lcinets don’t want those figures released. However, I do often show search ranking results, and ROI figures to those that ask. Most high end SEO’s have at least a few case studies.

31 Mystic Liquid

That is a great point. It is all about proving your results.

32 ItsSadReally

I think it’s pretty sad that some of the “big names” in the search industry feel the need to defend it. If I wrote a post about how 95% of lawyers are worthless I’m willing to bet I wouldn’t get “top” lawyers jumping at the chance to “defend” themselves. Same with any other profession.

Danny/Rand and anyone else who decided to “step up”…you’re just pushing our industry backwards, not forwards. You’re so easy to bait and you feel the need to keep publicly defending a profession that doesn’t need defending. Shoe’s post just makes him look uniformed, you’re “stepping up” makes you look insecure and does nothing for the search industry as a whole.

33 Farmer
34 Affiliate Confession

I’m putting my mind to work and got a couple of good ideas going. Can’t wait till April 1st either.

35 Affiliate Confession

Oh crap, wrong post!

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