Why I do not like 95% of SEO Experts
I claim all the time I am not a SEO and I have never sold SEO services. I always get labeled as a SEO though for some reason. I actually despise being labeled a SEO. Why? SEO’s are like the 21st century car salesmen. Most are slimy and have no clue what they are talking about. They tell you you just need to put spammy keywords in your title tag, keyword tag, and write a spammy as hell description meta tag.
Here is a prime example. In this site this guy says that I am losing money because my title tag does not contain more spammy words I could rank for.
Shoemoney - current title “Shoemoney - Skills To Pay The Bills” (Shoemoney, as famous as you are, I know you already rank great for many keywords, and although the title sounds good, why not optimize it and cash in on more visitors? Come on, dude!)
So its probably a link bait attempt which i am biting on.. however if your going to bait me to link to your site and lecture me on how I can make money you should at least have something on your advertiser page besides a blank page. Your credibility just went out the window.
This is why SEO’s are like used car salesman…
1) They can always sell you something.
2) They can never guarantee results.
3) They can not be held accountable.
4) They have a answer for everything.
5) All the magic happens behind the curtains - they cant tell you what they are actual doing because that would be getting to much into the secret sauce.
6) Anyone can be a SEO.
Here is my advice to anyone thinking about getting SEO services:
Concentrate on building a quality service. One that people will actually WANT TO BOOKMARK and comeback to. When I showed my stats from Nextpimp and this site people kept asking how I get so many “direct” hits. Its like people don’t know you can goto a web site without going to a god-damn Search Engine. When you create a good, useful service/site people will actually want to come to your site without you spamming Google.
Can the guy also get a huger f-ing logo please? No really it only takes up 1/3rd of my screen.
I would rather listen to you, than a SEO expert. You really know what you are talking about.
Those who can’t teach… do. Oh wait, it’s the other way around.
That is true anyone can be a seo but are they good at first place and can guarantee result.
Can they guarantee results? Unless the client started out as the worst-optimized site ever, you’re not going to be able to make a lot of guarantees. I get sales calls from SEO companies all the time, and the slimiest ones are usually the ones that try to promise certain results. Unless Google itself is calling, I don’t buy any claims about specific results.
I get those calls also. I know next to nothing about SEO but as I start to ask the salespeople questions I always find out that I know more than them.
erm… seo is useful! Animals have survived by adapting to their environment. therefore, adapt to this environment and deal with something you can’t change, right :3
but if you rly want to stop seo, it’s not helpful just complaining. propse a solution, or program your own search engine w/c features high-quality sites. then people will start to believe you. Am i wrong?
They ought to. What is the fun to hire them then.
A person can be considered a SEO expert after he/she has achieved great results with a few websites at the very least. It’s hilarious to see a lot of companies which don’t even rank for their own terms offering SEO services
Everybody who has coded the least liitle bit of HTML now considers themselves an SEO expert. Somebody hires them, they waste their money and then people don’t like SEO’s anymore. I’ve always sold my SEO/SEM skills on the fact that I operate my own webistes to a position of income where I don’t need their business. It’s true, I make enough from my own websites to not worry if people want to hire me or not.
I would have no idea how to find your site Shoemoney if it hadn’t been for someone I knew.
I can make you a better proposition then. Here goes:
1) I have nothing to sell you.
2) Since I am not selling anything, I don’t need to guarantee anything.
3) You can hold me accountable.
4) I don’t have most of the answers.
5) I will gladly tell you what I am doing.
You have to admit some of your statements are a bit useless. Who is going to work for free? Who is going to guarantee anything when no one has the actual recipe (and that recipe can change daily)? Since the success of most SEO’s depends primarily on his ability to discover things not known by other SEO’s.
Rule #1, never respond to unsolicited seo requests (esp. email, according to google’s own guidelines). I don’t do SEO for others, but really, the only way you’re going to find a good one is via a friend that has done well.
P.S. Not everyone that sells widgets on a website can have amazing compelling websites, so therefore we should give up and let someone else do it. Perhaps you can help my yo-yo string site get really popular like yours by simply writing some hip posts.
Maybe they sould try and SEO their own site instead of trying to sell their crummy services to Shoemoney.
Hey, bro, try reading the entire post first. No one was selling anyone SEO services, idiot!
These comments got twisted at some point…and it’s from rocks like you that don’t take the time to read the article, rather you’re just worried about getting your little, tiny, insignificant link in the comment list =D Have a nice day.
Sarcasm at it’s best Adam.
It’s normal people would associate you as SEO shoe, since you are pretty good at it. But like you said, most people only know one technique in SEO and that’s spamming links.
I think it actually takes up more than 1/3rd of my screen. It actually beats John Chows header in wasted space. Am I allowed to mention that name here?
I think you could have titled this post “PUNK’D”
Haha… that’s how that SEO must feel right now. What a n00b.
Jeremy, what u say is so true ! u hit the nail on the spot - i am one of the guys who types ur url directly & ctrl & enter !! Content is King !!!!!!
Wow that is one large header!! Like his motto too:” We’re once all noobs”, well he still is
I normally type in the url of the sites I visit. I’m a DirectURL user
Besides its not hard to remember sites like shoemoney.com or gizmodo.com etc. I only use Google when I need to look for a site I have not been to yet! lol
Branding is always the name of the game since, let’s face it: if you receive penalties, people won’t be able to find you through search engines but I am having a hard time trying to figure out how they can be stopped when it comes to visiting your website by typing in your URL
I completely agree with you. When I first began looking into affiliate marketing I signed up for every list I could. I was continually spammed with emails everyday on how I should buy their product. I’ve since deleted them from my email lists so they know that I don’t appreciate their garbage and included a message to that fact when cancelling my address from their list. I’ve only received a response from one of the SEO’s and they were very gracious and apologized.
I think you have to be very cautious when signing up for things as you never know what you are going to get.
I despise when people with no credentials (0 PR, 0 Alexa) list some generic tips. I mean seriously, I’m sure people have read about title tags about a thousand different places.
True - even I know about title tags and I’ve always been technologically challenged.
But - I don’t agree with you on PR - PR sucks and it always will, for as long as they keep decreasing mine.
I share your opinion: PR is not worth it any more so that the best way to judge a company offering SEO services is by looking into rankings from their own keywords and seeing if they practice what they preach.
If PR isn’t worth anything, then I’ll be glad to trade your PR4-5-6 link for my PR0. Is it a deal? Yeah, that’s what I thought….pagerank still matters and you’re a fool to think it doesn’t.
the sad thing is that most people don’t know much about seo and end up falling for everything.
Yeah, okay, you’re right. No Alexa, no PR.
THE BLOG is 5 days old, are you that dense???
Point me in the direction of any links from shoemoney on your blog, oh that’s right…you have none. And before you criticize a five day old blog about rankings…take a look at your 1,000,090 (almost got tired typing all of those zero’s)+ Alexa rank, and your PR0. I had more visitors yesterday then you had in two months.
Case closed.
Next?
Hey Ryan,
I think you are a genius. Throw up a blog…..make a couple posts….talk some smack …. get front page coverage on Shoemoney.com. In only 5 days!!! Brilliant!!! You should post about this experience. Seriously … (ok, not really)
My blog is only 5 days old … it is incomplete … I have a PR0 …. I have no Alexa. Hmmm… now, If I can only think of the right smack ….
I will throw out some smack and see what happens.
Good luck with your site. Looks like Shoe has given you a great push. I would be appreciative of such exposure.
In two weeks, if only the 25% of the 14,000+ subscribers to this site remember seonoobs.com and check up on you to see how you are failing, that is at least 3,500 people that might get a chance to change their minds about your “expert” opinion. Get the chip off your shoulder, take this in stride and start posting your best stuff right now.
I’ll hang up and listen…
[...] post by Some Rights Reserved Share and Enjoy: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and [...]
Do I detect a hint of anger, Shoe?
Great post, though. There is a reason why 99% of web businesses do very little or nothing at all. You just illustrated it.
Too many seo expert out there and keep spamming blogger about their “great” service, i nver trust one
[...] Read more of this article at ShoeMoney.com [...]
Of course, we’re not all slimy sleaze bags. There are some of us out there who actually know what we’re talking about, have years of experience behind us, and have years of quality case studies behind us.
But yes, there are plenty who like to think they know what they’re talking about when they really don’t have a clue. It was only yesterday when I gave a 140 character rant on Twitter about idiots who own a business in an industry they know nothing about. It’s something that really gets under my skin!
That’s very true but the most vocal ones, the ones doing the unsolicited inquiries, they give the rest a bad name.
Right on target there Jamie. I’ve read humorous seo experts claiming this is how to do this and that but in the end, the only technique they know is spamming a whole lot of links.
Some people, eh. I don’t think that guy (whoever he is since no one probably has heard of him) has anything to say to you about raising your traffic.
i think you wrote an article about how pissing off people was a great way to get links (even if your is a no-follow)
its very true… the attack hook is a great way to get links. BUT what are you getting links for? and in the end you wont get THAT many links. This site gets about 20-30 links per day just by having content people like.
I think you totally fell for the linkbait
However, Shoe, you are giving SEOs a bad rap. Everybody enters their market from a different point, and I can help 99% of new websites to their market with my recommendations. WIth SEO, you are paying for rankings but the real product you are going to get is that the SEO is going to put you on a plan, that you can use to construct your overall development plan. Making the right SEO choices can inform design, content creation and sub niche strategy for “optimized” profitability.
Nah…SEOs are doing that themselves.
Funny thing is the majority of SEOs are spewing crap that…well doesn’t matter anymore or has very little weight to pay any attention to.
Aside from that, the best SEO is an SEO you never hear about.
Farmer…. I must agree with that.
It’s like colleges, the good ones don’t need to advertise on late night TV.
Indeed Farmer! Right on track with that one. The best SEO is an SEO you’ve never heard about. They don’t need the exposure to get clients.
I’d love to know who was trying to get clients…?
Totally well said…..I have kept doing the same thing with my printnpost site and really just doing what i planned to do and not worry so much on the daily report i see on adsense and it is growing. I just focus on keeping the site going and the users happy and they just keep coming back and are very loyal
i think “SEO Experts” should change their name to “I might get you some traffic”…
LOL. You can change that to “I might get you some traffic now but you might lose it later”
RollTheDice SEO. “Maybe you’ll hit it big”
Some traffic = some sales.. im sure you will take it …
I’m sure you’ll agree, you know your brand and hence your title asserts your brand, rather than SEO nature.
I think blogs are compeltely different from SEO, and the amount of time people spent SEO’ing for blogs is stupid. I feel that half of them are wasting their time - Social networking and bookmarking, with relevant article title tags, are more likely to succeed.
And regarding the Sleazy Car Salesman comment, have a look at one of his comments:
“I didn’t write this article for nothing people….”
Fool.
Sure, SEO should never be neglected but focusing on content is what comes first since promoting a bad product will get you nowhere and anything built on a shaky foundation will definitely not last.
[...] someone who’s been very much catching up on a lot of SEO goodness lately, Jeremy’s post definitely rings true to me. Here’s the main excerpt: SEO’s are like used car [...]
I *am* an SEO, and I hate ‘em all too. See your post yesterday about incestuous circle jerks.
Any of us who can be found at the top of the search engines with a one word search doesn’t need SEO. You don’t. I don’t either.
wow - this cat is ridiculous! I couldn’t even read his whole post the teenage-style writing had me cringing with every attempt of constructive criticism…who is this guy, really and does he really think he has something to offer?
Shoemoney…
I’m the sleazy car salesman that posted about your title tag! For the record, the blog is roughly 5 days old…so, due to the fact that I can’t spend 12 hours a day on it, I haven’t completed some of the other static pages. I think that’s pretty understandable…
Second, I wasn’t calling you out to be an ass, and I am well aware of the fact that you are, indeed, The Shoemoney. I know you could give a rats ass about optimizing your title because you already do very well for yourself, and probably more folks have you bookmarked or “type in”, than SE traffic.
I used to run RyanShamus.com..(it looked alot different than it does now with the new owner) but anyway, I “grew up” in the blogging world paying attention to what you had to say. I’m not kissing ass…but just wanted you to know that. Also for the haters that said I was “probably a nobody” and a noob myself…I, and many others, would disagree.
And Adam, I love my big header. I bet you’ll remember it
For ZenProBlog - yeah, plenty of folks have heard about me…but the real question is (and I ask myself the same), who the hell are you? Never heard of you…but keep up the good work.
YOU LOOK LIKE A IDIOT.
hmmm….thanks for the caps and no website. I look like the idiot? No.
OH You are a genius RyAn. I love it how you created BUZZ.
This is getting interesting.
Rhys - thanks for pointing that out…you sure used to not mind me before, but it’s always easy to agree with the big guys, right?
Vizion - I’m ridiculous? Teenage-style writing? Go watch some more MTV….
“go watch some more MTV”…what a tremendous rebuttal from someone who represents themselves as far form ‘noob’ i would’ve expected better. I guess my first observation is warranted.
I think its good you state your opinion. Keep doing that!
You just have to be prepared to backup what you say.
I am known.
You know me.
I don’t know you.
I’m so badass I don’t have time to know if I don’t know you but you know me so that is all that matters.
There are good and bad SEO experts like there are good and bad anything. However somebody calling you out for a bad title tag when you likely outearn him by 100x is the height of stupidity.
For us newer that new noobs who are the 5% that you like. Could you also state why you like them? Are the people you have had relationships with in the past? Could they demostrate their success in SEO? I’m just trying to educate myself.
Great site!
If you really want to hire a seo that can do something for you ask to see their cell phone and look at how many Google/Yahoo/MSN search engineers are in there. These are the people who can do something for you just by making a call. They can also help you when you most need it. The rest is all basic seo you can read about in any forum.
Sounds like the elite retreat should have an octagon and the first post on fighters should be the youtube video. I think this would benefit all involved.
Exactly, and people who are actually capable of achieving great results don’t work for pocket change either. “You get what you pay for” is a phrase which applies when it comes to choosing a SEO company just as it does everywhere else. When you see a company making all sorts of promises and offering their service for peanuts, you should definitely think twice.
what is the implication here concerning having the search engineers phone numbers and being able to call them? favors, graft, inside info? I doubt the companies would approve of those kind of back channels
Yup, the link for my comment points to google, somehow I managed to be number one for that, youfoundjake.
Why mention this?
Heeh, try a search on google for http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=site:ryanshamus.com&btnG=Search
see how all the descriptions are the same? And you know what the kicker is? I didn’t charge anyone for that little nugget of information.
Again, I haven’t owned the site for quite some time now…and it’s totally different, so…
Viz - We’re done…I certainly didn’t come over to start flaming each other, it’s rather immature. Agree to disagree and forget about it.
Todd - I (as I stated several times) know Shoemoney is a baller, and I never claimed anything else. I’m not concerned with how much money he makes, rather, I was trying to educate my target readers (who are brand new to the scene of SEO) on how to optimize titles.
Shoemoney - Totally agree with that last statement of yours. Again, I’m catering to people that aren’t really familiar or comfortable yet with the concept of SEO. The same information is out there on a thousand different sites/blogs/forums, but I just like to write about it
Telling someone they don’t know anything or their opinion is relevant because they don’t make as much as you or aren’t as well known is absolutely absurd. First of all, he has already received a lot of attention from everyone here reading this blog, and he has been up for all of about 5 days (check whois for domain registration date). Second, will title tags make or break your site? No. Do they help with “some” search engine rankings? Absolutely. I can’t speak to all search engines as I don’t know all of their algorithms, but some definitely consider the title tag.
Third, he makes a valid point. If a title tag could “possibly” drive a few hundred more people to your site, why wouldn’t you change it? That’s just bad business, period.
If you want to say, I’m not that worried about my title tag, I’d rather it say something witty.. great! You can’t find fault in the advice itself though.. good title tags do help.
Also, its not spammy. Spamming is cluttering a website with useless information.. using good keywords in your title tag is both informative to a user and good for traffic.
And Mr Wall hath spoken. Still you have to admit the ‘has an answer to everything’ part is true with all the comments back that Ryan is responding with.
True indeed… Now, back to optimizing my sight and trying to get keywords out there.
Lol, dude why do you link back to such people anyways? Link back to me please. I have better crap
what do you think constitutes an “EXPERT” in SEO…results or experience?
in my ‘personal’ opinion wouldn’t it be both?
You are good at SEO the moment you are able to get your or your client’s site to the first page and KEEP IT there. Spamming a site to the top is quite easy - making sure it stays there over time (years) is another story. That is where you’ll see the difference in strategies.
I hear you man. It’s really hard to tell who is legit and who isn’t. It could take months to see results in some cases and that give them time to disappear or make excuses. I think you have to look carefully at their previous clients and see what they have to say.
well im not too sure what Ryan did to get on the radar of shoemoney, but I think the overall result should be great in your eyes. You got a top blogger to link back to a smaller blog with less than 100 rss readers. Maybe I should start blogging about how crappy shoemoney’s site is and maybe he will link back to me to
Ryan, you don’t even have your RSS feed setup correctly. When someone tries to add you to thier RSS reader it shows as “(title unknown)”. That’s not good. FREE nugget for you. Peace.
I’ll say it again…the blog is now 5 days old. I work full time. I haven’t configured EVERYthing yet. So, kind of a weak point.
so maybe you shouldnt talk shit about people when your stuff isnt in order?
What kind of excuse is this? Who launches before they are ready? It’s like setting up a store and not configuring the shopping cart. Isn’t RSS feed like closing a sale?
Please, with the 5 days old crap.
LOL, I love all of the shit talking, and no links…scared?
And, who was talking shit, anyway? Read my article before you make yourself look stupid on such a nice blog. Most of the idiots above and below me played a simple game of “telephone”. It gets more and more twisted as it goes on…all I did was talk about the importance of title tags, and I ended up with a backlink from here, and many others. Oh, and I did your wife…damn..maybe that’s why you’re pissed. My bad!
“Who launches before they are ready?” That is kinda the same argument he is giving shoe… At any given time half of shoe’s links don’t work…
Then why criticize Shoemoney when your own house is not in order?
I never criticized anyone, read my article, and you’ll see that. The rest of the peasants here are the ones that flamed it up, and made it look like something totally different that it was. It’s quite hilarious, actually.
To be fair he’s just trying to get some linkbait going which is clearly working. Also I quite liked the tone of his writing from what I saw so meh, fair play I say.
Admittedly as someone else already mentioned his header is ridiculously large and should be changed lol. I don’t think you can call him a slimy SEO for that though!
Shoe,
This post really kinda sucks man. There are a lot of spammers and scammers out there, I know. But we aren’t all bad. I know you said 95%, but hell man, at least leave an open ended “for the record, they aren’t all bad” at the end of the post or something. I have a rebuttal for you.
I hate those type of SEO’s too. I take no offense to this post, I’m not slimy. If I took offense, I’d just send you a can of dog poop.
No way. Shoe could afford more poop than I, and my fiance would banish me to the lands if I started such a fight that I could not finish.
Couldn’t agree more… I think it’s funny how Josh Garner is trying to convince you that “we aren’t all bad,” trying to say he’s not a spammer - as he spams his rebuttal for you. Hmm… I think that’s a case in point for you Shoemoney.
Jason,
https://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/advsearch?p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openjason.com&bwm=i&bwmo=d&bwmf=u
After 10, I stopped counting the comments you have for links to your site. I’m not looking for a fight, I just wanted to rebut with an opinion without writing a novel in a comment.
very true… but for one, I’m not an SEO, and two, and openly admit that I comment, creating links…
btw - I was just razzin’ you man… didn’t mean to ruffle any feathers…