Why I do not like 95% of SEO Experts

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I claim all the time I am not a SEO and I have never sold SEO services. I always get labeled as a SEO though for some reason. I actually despise being labeled a SEO. Why? SEO’s are like the 21st century car salesmen. Most are slimy and have no clue what they are talking about. They tell you you just need to put spammy keywords in your title tag, keyword tag, and write a spammy as hell description meta tag.

Here is a prime example. In this site this guy says that I am losing money because my title tag does not contain more spammy words I could rank for.

Shoemoney – current title “Shoemoney – Skills To Pay The Bills” (Shoemoney, as famous as you are, I know you already rank great for many keywords, and although the title sounds good, why not optimize it and cash in on more visitors? Come on, dude!)

So its probably a link bait attempt which i am biting on.. however if your going to bait me to link to your site and lecture me on how I can make money you should at least have something on your advertiser page besides a blank page. Your credibility just went out the window.

This is why SEO’s are like used car salesman…

1) They can always sell you something.

2) They can never guarantee results.

3) They can not be held accountable.

4) They have a answer for everything.

5) All the magic happens behind the curtains – they cant tell you what they are actual doing because that would be getting to much into the secret sauce.

6) Anyone can be a SEO.

Here is my advice to anyone thinking about getting SEO services:

Concentrate on building a quality service. One that people will actually WANT TO BOOKMARK and comeback to. When I showed my stats from Nextpimp and this site people kept asking how I get so many “direct” hits. Its like people don’t know you can goto a web site without going to a god-damn Search Engine. When you create a good, useful service/site people will actually want to come to your site without you spamming Google.

309 thoughts on “Why I do not like 95% of SEO Experts

  1. Tyler

    Wow that is one large header!! Like his motto too:” We’re once all noobs”, well he still is ;)

    I normally type in the url of the sites I visit. I’m a DirectURL user ;) Besides its not hard to remember sites like shoemoney.com or gizmodo.com etc. I only use Google when I need to look for a site I have not been to yet! lol

  2. Melissa

    I completely agree with you. When I first began looking into affiliate marketing I signed up for every list I could. I was continually spammed with emails everyday on how I should buy their product. I’ve since deleted them from my email lists so they know that I don’t appreciate their garbage and included a message to that fact when cancelling my address from their list. I’ve only received a response from one of the SEO’s and they were very gracious and apologized.

    I think you have to be very cautious when signing up for things as you never know what you are going to get.

  3. Alex Zhao

    I despise when people with no credentials (0 PR, 0 Alexa) list some generic tips. I mean seriously, I’m sure people have read about title tags about a thousand different places.

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  5. Richard

    Do I detect a hint of anger, Shoe?

    Great post, though. There is a reason why 99% of web businesses do very little or nothing at all. You just illustrated it.

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  7. Jamie Harrop

    Of course, we’re not all slimy sleaze bags. There are some of us out there who actually know what we’re talking about, have years of experience behind us, and have years of quality case studies behind us. :)

    But yes, there are plenty who like to think they know what they’re talking about when they really don’t have a clue. It was only yesterday when I gave a 140 character rant on Twitter about idiots who own a business in an industry they know nothing about. It’s something that really gets under my skin!

  8. Warren

    Some people, eh. I don’t think that guy (whoever he is since no one probably has heard of him) has anything to say to you about raising your traffic.

  9. Printnpost

    Totally well said…..I have kept doing the same thing with my printnpost site and really just doing what i planned to do and not worry so much on the daily report i see on adsense and it is growing. I just focus on keeping the site going and the users happy and they just keep coming back and are very loyal :)

  10. Rhys

    I’m sure you’ll agree, you know your brand and hence your title asserts your brand, rather than SEO nature.

    I think blogs are compeltely different from SEO, and the amount of time people spent SEO’ing for blogs is stupid. I feel that half of them are wasting their time – Social networking and bookmarking, with relevant article title tags, are more likely to succeed.

    And regarding the Sleazy Car Salesman comment, have a look at one of his comments:

    “I didn’t write this article for nothing people….”


  11. Pingback: Shoemoney: SEOs are like used car salesmen | Ari Shohat - fast impressions

  12. Netmeg

    I *am* an SEO, and I hate ‘em all too. See your post yesterday about incestuous circle jerks.

    Any of us who can be found at the top of the search engines with a one word search doesn’t need SEO. You don’t. I don’t either.

  13. Vizion

    wow – this cat is ridiculous! I couldn’t even read his whole post the teenage-style writing had me cringing with every attempt of constructive criticism…who is this guy, really and does he really think he has something to offer?

  14. Ryan


    I’m the sleazy car salesman that posted about your title tag! For the record, the blog is roughly 5 days old…so, due to the fact that I can’t spend 12 hours a day on it, I haven’t completed some of the other static pages. I think that’s pretty understandable…

    Second, I wasn’t calling you out to be an ass, and I am well aware of the fact that you are, indeed, The Shoemoney. I know you could give a rats ass about optimizing your title because you already do very well for yourself, and probably more folks have you bookmarked or “type in”, than SE traffic.

    I used to run RyanShamus.com..(it looked alot different than it does now with the new owner) but anyway, I “grew up” in the blogging world paying attention to what you had to say. I’m not kissing ass…but just wanted you to know that. Also for the haters that said I was “probably a nobody” and a noob myself…I, and many others, would disagree.

    And Adam, I love my big header. I bet you’ll remember it :)

    For ZenProBlog – yeah, plenty of folks have heard about me…but the real question is (and I ask myself the same), who the hell are you? Never heard of you…but keep up the good work.

  15. Jeremy Schoemaker

    its very true… the attack hook is a great way to get links. BUT what are you getting links for? and in the end you wont get THAT many links. This site gets about 20-30 links per day just by having content people like.

  16. Ryan

    Rhys – thanks for pointing that out…you sure used to not mind me before, but it’s always easy to agree with the big guys, right?

    Vizion – I’m ridiculous? Teenage-style writing? Go watch some more MTV….

  17. Farmer

    I am known.

    You know me.

    I don’t know you.

    I’m so badass I don’t have time to know if I don’t know you but you know me so that is all that matters.

    1. Crystal

      Today, I went to the beach with my children.
      I found a sea shell and gave it to my 4 year old daughter and said “You can hear the ocean if you put this to your ear.” She placed the shell to her ear
      and screamed. There was a hermit crab inside and
      it pinched her ear. She never wants to go back!
      LoL I know this is totally off topic but I had to tell someone!

  18. Todd Mintz

    There are good and bad SEO experts like there are good and bad anything. However somebody calling you out for a bad title tag when you likely outearn him by 100x is the height of stupidity.

  19. Ron

    For us newer that new noobs who are the 5% that you like. Could you also state why you like them? Are the people you have had relationships with in the past? Could they demostrate their success in SEO? I’m just trying to educate myself.

    Great site!

  20. Vizion

    “go watch some more MTV”…what a tremendous rebuttal from someone who represents themselves as far form ‘noob’ i would’ve expected better. I guess my first observation is warranted.

  21. Jeremy Schoemaker

    If you really want to hire a seo that can do something for you ask to see their cell phone and look at how many Google/Yahoo/MSN search engineers are in there. These are the people who can do something for you just by making a call. They can also help you when you most need it. The rest is all basic seo you can read about in any forum.

  22. Ryan

    Viz – We’re done…I certainly didn’t come over to start flaming each other, it’s rather immature. Agree to disagree and forget about it.

    Todd – I (as I stated several times) know Shoemoney is a baller, and I never claimed anything else. I’m not concerned with how much money he makes, rather, I was trying to educate my target readers (who are brand new to the scene of SEO) on how to optimize titles.

    Shoemoney – Totally agree with that last statement of yours. Again, I’m catering to people that aren’t really familiar or comfortable yet with the concept of SEO. The same information is out there on a thousand different sites/blogs/forums, but I just like to write about it :)

  23. Aaron

    Telling someone they don’t know anything or their opinion is relevant because they don’t make as much as you or aren’t as well known is absolutely absurd. First of all, he has already received a lot of attention from everyone here reading this blog, and he has been up for all of about 5 days (check whois for domain registration date). Second, will title tags make or break your site? No. Do they help with “some” search engine rankings? Absolutely. I can’t speak to all search engines as I don’t know all of their algorithms, but some definitely consider the title tag.
    Third, he makes a valid point. If a title tag could “possibly” drive a few hundred more people to your site, why wouldn’t you change it? That’s just bad business, period.

    If you want to say, I’m not that worried about my title tag, I’d rather it say something witty.. great! You can’t find fault in the advice itself though.. good title tags do help.

    Also, its not spammy. Spamming is cluttering a website with useless information.. using good keywords in your title tag is both informative to a user and good for traffic.

  24. joe

    I think you totally fell for the linkbait :)

    However, Shoe, you are giving SEOs a bad rap. Everybody enters their market from a different point, and I can help 99% of new websites to their market with my recommendations. WIth SEO, you are paying for rankings but the real product you are going to get is that the SEO is going to put you on a plan, that you can use to construct your overall development plan. Making the right SEO choices can inform design, content creation and sub niche strategy for “optimized” profitability.

  25. Farmer

    Nah…SEOs are doing that themselves.

    Funny thing is the majority of SEOs are spewing crap that…well doesn’t matter anymore or has very little weight to pay any attention to.

    Aside from that, the best SEO is an SEO you never hear about.

  26. How To Rule The World

    well im not too sure what Ryan did to get on the radar of shoemoney, but I think the overall result should be great in your eyes. You got a top blogger to link back to a smaller blog with less than 100 rss readers. Maybe I should start blogging about how crappy shoemoney’s site is and maybe he will link back to me to ;)

  27. Gerad

    Ryan, you don’t even have your RSS feed setup correctly. When someone tries to add you to thier RSS reader it shows as “(title unknown)”. That’s not good. FREE nugget for you. Peace.

  28. Adam

    To be fair he’s just trying to get some linkbait going which is clearly working. Also I quite liked the tone of his writing from what I saw so meh, fair play I say.

    Admittedly as someone else already mentioned his header is ridiculously large and should be changed lol. I don’t think you can call him a slimy SEO for that though!

  29. Josh Garner


    This post really kinda sucks man. There are a lot of spammers and scammers out there, I know. But we aren’t all bad. I know you said 95%, but hell man, at least leave an open ended “for the record, they aren’t all bad” at the end of the post or something. I have a rebuttal for you.

  30. Ryan

    I’ll say it again…the blog is now 5 days old. I work full time. I haven’t configured EVERYthing yet. So, kind of a weak point.

  31. Jason

    Couldn’t agree more… I think it’s funny how Josh Garner is trying to convince you that “we aren’t all bad,” trying to say he’s not a spammer – as he spams his rebuttal for you. Hmm… I think that’s a case in point for you Shoemoney.

  32. Arejay Ell

    Great Post! I think you were all too kind with saying 95% , its at least 98%. None of these SEO’s even have there own sites that make any money besides some adsense clicks (yay 5cents for someone to leave my website). One must always ask a SEO for proof, but then if you have to ask, then they are in that 98%. Real SEO’s are people who constantly charge $5,000 on the lowend for basic optomization, and have so many clients they are always expanding. These are the people who have no need to post in forums to advertise themselfs , they dont make blogs about how badass they are and how they can do the same for you for only $200. The real SEO’s understand the foundation of a solid business plan, timelines, goals, and don’t understand how someone can have a “online business” without a business plan , or even proper funding for the “business sites”. Again Great post Shoe!

  33. David G.

    That hurts, am I the only used car salesman that reads Shoemoney.com Hell somebody has to sell used cars otherwise where would we stack them up after you’ve used them. I’am nearly at the bottom of the most untrusted professions in the world list already, previously I could have only moved lower by selling Life Insurance or becoming a Lawyer. Now I can become an SEO, LOL

  34. Silvano

    I think SEO is overwhelming when someone just starting a website/blog etc. is looking for ways to increase their traffic and or submissions to search engines. Hell, I typed in “submit site to google” and got a page of SEO links before ever finding googles own submission forms. Just saying, maybe the majority of them are crooked/spammy whatever you want to call it, but obviously theres a market for them, and they do look good coming from the eyes of someone starting up.

  35. Netmeg

    The bottom line is, the people who really know what they’re doing in this business don’t need to trumpet it around or beat the bushes to drum up clients. The people who know what they are doing are so in demand that they already have just about as many clients as they can handle; indeed they’re in a position to accept or reject projects as they choose. You’re lucky if you can convince one to help you out. The closest thing to a guarantee that you’ll get out of them is that they’ll improve upon your current situation – and they’ll be able to deliver.

    (And nobody gets to see the numbers in my cell phone – that’s the quickest way to lose your carefully cultivated google-friends!)

  36. Josh Garner

    Actually Silvano, that’s part of the problem. SEO IS overwhelming to new people, and there are a lot of “SEOs” or “SEO Firms” taking advantage of that. That’s why this post kinda sucks. Not because I’m personally offended, but because we SEOs have enough to battle with the snake oil salesmen (I won’t call you out David lol) without perpetuating SEO myths.

  37. Josh Garner

    Netmeg, after 4 years, I finally got to feel the luxury (or burden) of turning away my first client at the middle of 2007. Everyone has to start somewhere. You don’t just come out with a name that sells. I didn’t (actually in the SEO world I’m considered small time, even if I get to turn clients away), Shoe didn’t, Danny didn’t, nobody did. We all had/have to prove ourselves. We have to work hard to work our way up. We have to show our worth.

    And for anyone new to SEO reading any of these, who needs an SEO, and is told by an “SEO” that they know someone at Google, please walk away. That’s not a valid response. I’m hoping shoe wasn’t the one that left that comment before.

  38. Catherine Lawson

    What a dick that guy sounded. And so typical of many SEO experts. I have been criticised recently by a couple of SEO’s because of my lack of technical skills – and I don’t know why as I’ve never claimed to be technically skilled.

    The hilarious thing is – most of these SEO experts could not run a tap, let alone a business.

  39. jim

    That’s very true but the most vocal ones, the ones doing the unsolicited inquiries, they give the rest a bad name.

  40. Catherine Lawson

    True – even I know about title tags and I’ve always been technologically challenged.

    But – I don’t agree with you on PR – PR sucks and it always will, for as long as they keep decreasing mine.

  41. Ryan Blakemore

    I agree with you there Shoemoney, too many people call themselves experts. I think too many people believe they are experts at things they are not good at and that isn’t limited to SEO. The difference with other industries like electricians for example, is they have to prove they are an expert at what they do by obtaining certification before they can legally provide that service. SEO is branded too much like VooDoo. SEOs need to educate their customers and explain exactly why they are doing what they are doing. To often they will say things like “That’s what Google likes”, because they don’t want to lose their customers and they really don’t know what they are talking about.

    SEO is still a fairly new industry, with lots of myths and misunderstanding, which is not helped along by us having to guess and figure things out, because the search engines are so vague. I also think the buyers of SEO services need to take some of the blame for the problems. The buyers need to make a bit of effort to understand the true value of SEO and understand what they are buying, instead of just hiring in a man (or woman) who will magically rank them at the top of Google.

    I have huge respect for you ShoeMoney, but I can’t help feeling this page looks like Robin Hood and his band of merry men (I don’t mean to disrespect anybody with that analogy, but I find it hard to believe that many people think exactly the same way as Shoe). I for one would like to congratulate Ryan on successfully getting a link from ShoeMoney.com, I’m sure the increase in traffic will be worth the flaming you received in the comments.

  42. Josh Garner

    Catherine, if some “SEO” criticises you for not knowing something, they are either not SEOs, or they have insecurity issues.

    Guys, really, most of us in the industry are incredibly helpful. I know how we look from the outside, believe me, I hear it all the time. I know that we get a lot of black eyes. But really. Spend a week or 2 at Sphinn or SEO Book. I say spend a little time at Sphinn because we have to waid through crap as well. It’s a community for SEO to share information and help each other. Inherently, there are “SEOs” that want to use it for their own gain. But with a little time, you’ll get to know the ones that are worth listening to, and the ones that aren’t. It’s like any other industry. Even Shoe’s (ever stayed up long enough to see the “work from home” commercials?).

    Alot of us run blogs, giving away the “secret information.” Hell, SEOmoz built a company around this idea. People don’t pay us for voodoo. It’s not rocket science. It just requires time and dedication. People pay us for our experience and working knowledge.

    OK. I gotta go home now.

    And for the one that asked who Shoe would recommend, he is a member of the Internet Marketing Ninjas himself. Those are a group of some of the most talented (known anyway) SEOs out there.

  43. Bjorn Solstad - Devenia Internet Marketing

    You are good at SEO the moment you are able to get your or your client’s site to the first page and KEEP IT there. Spamming a site to the top is quite easy – making sure it stays there over time (years) is another story. That is where you’ll see the difference in strategies.

  44. How To Rule The World

    Man this has to be the most intense topic ever. As for SEO, i think everyone thinks they are an SEO expert. If you make correct titles and add meta tags then bam, all of a sudden you are an SEO expert. If you were a real SEO expert then the guy who said he wouldn’t advertise SEO services is correct. If you have so much power and control over search engine rankings then you would use it to your own benefit to make yourself thousands of dollars, maybe even millions. I think SEO is just a great way to say, I might get something accomplished for you. I think there are people who can effectively get good positions out there but as shoemoney states. 95%, at the very least, ARE FULL OF CRAP.

  45. POOPeGifts_com

    RJ, real SEO’s do have time to post in forums and do write blogs about what they do. $5,000 though, for SEO sounds like a monthly payment to me, no where near what a complete package should cost.

  46. Aaron

    How would you go about making all of that money? Being good at SEO doesn’t mean you can sell absolutely anything. You have to be offering something that people want and are looking for as well. If your statement were really true there would be a lot of very wealthy SEO’s out there.

    As mentioned by a previous user, you have to start out somewhere. Even if you know absolutely everything, your not going to just jump into the business and charge 10k a job. No one is going to pay you money without a proven track record and your not going to get that track record in most cases, without taking some jobs for a few hundred bucks or even pro bono – unless your already in another segment of the industry and are just tying SEO into it.

    There are a lot of SEO’s out there that are full of crap for sure, but there are also a lot out there that know what they are talking about. To be honest, I’m not even sure how it came up that people who advertise must be terrible SEO’s, it seems completely off topic. No one here was trying to sell their services were they?

    For some reason people are jumping on the shoemoney train and getting upset that the title was criticized just because the site is popular. No one said a site would fail without a good title tag. The advice was valid, and thats the only thing that should matter.

  47. How To Rule The World

    Aaron, I think you could sell anything if you were a good SEO. If you could get on top of any keyword what would you sell? The advertising space of course… Provided from a site with good content, you don’t have to be selling a specific product to make money from it. You just need to offer the space your taking up.

  48. Josh Garner

    I’m sorry Poop. You’re right. Knowing someone at Google isn’t a bad thing. However, there are those that think they can tout that as a reason to go with their “SEO” services. The grand majority of the people at Google couldn’t help you rank higher. The ranking factors are sealed that tightly. So, when an SEO says “I know a guy at Google, I can guarantee rankings.” Then something is wrong.

  49. Josh Garner

    Actually that’s not what SEO is really all about. Well, it is…sorta. But that’s where Shoe is correct in this post. As an SEO, my passion is SEO. I don’t really have a passion for anything else. More often than not, if you set out to do something solely for the money, especially with blogging, and not because you have a passion for it, you will fail. So, we SEOs help those with a passion attain goals, be it rankings, traffic, conversion, or other.

  50. Aaron

    Really, because there are some crazy sites out there. mail order animal fescies(sp?) used underwear… I honestly don’t know how I would go about making a successful online business out of those products. Plus, there is a very good chance that most “solely” only business have a good amount of competition and as mentioned by the previous poster, I don’t want to be in online business.. I enjoy SEO and Web Development, so thats what I am going to continue doing.

  51. How To Rule The World

    Josh, I’m not sure that is a valid statement. I think every SEO and blogger is SECRETLY in it for the money. I am sure there are those, RARE, cases where some guy didn’t even realize he could make money doing it, but once he finds out he can, guess what he will probably focus on…. the money… If you are not in it for the money, they you are being played a fool by the person willing to pay you penny’s to make him thousands.

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  53. sean

    push the SEO button and watch the comments fly. remember when yahoo was just a small list of websites? It was unimpressive but took off because no one could find anything by typing around. Today you have several forms of marketing to get the word out. Search engines are still important however. What people do after they find you is important too…really more important for the long term. Do they return, tell their friends etc. However they still need to find you the first time. I find it hard to believe that people found NextPimp the first time via a type-in

  54. Sam I Am

    Well spoken! By the way, in case no one’s already done it. For some reason your comment count in google reader always indicates 7, regardless of how many comments there are???

  55. Josh Garner

    To an extent you are correct HTRTW, but therein lies a completely different conversation. I’m sure Shoe knew he could leverage his passion/knowledge/experience to monetize the blog. But it had to start with a passion. He didn’t site back one day and think, “Hey, how can I make money?” More likely, he knew he had a gift that most people didn’t, and decided to capitalize on that gift. In reference to Netmegs comment on turning people away, this is the number 1 reason I do so. If someone comes to me and wants to make a blog, I ask why. If they say to make money, I explain that I can not help them. If they come back with something along the lines that they are really good at something, or know of a gap in information that they can fill, and they would like to monetize it, then they have my attention.

    All too often people start a blog with the intent to make money and nothing more, then lose interest when it doesn’t pan out after a month or 2. They didn’t have the passion in the first place that it takes to make it past the down sides.

  56. Josh Garner

    lol. You’re right. As voicing as I am right now, believe it or not, I’m probably the most docile SEO Blogger. We SEOs get really testy. I know it’s not funny, but I laugh.

    And you couldn’t be more correct about the rest of your comment. Any real SEO will tell you that rankings are only a piece of the puzzle. Traffic another, conversions another. This is the reason you need to educate yourself about SEO. It is too often touted as the magic bullet. But it’s not.

    Example? I may be wrong, but with all the times “SEO” has been used in these comments and on Shoe’s post, he will likely rank somewhere for the term. Not because his blog is about SEO, but because the site has a lot of authority, age, and I’m willing to bet a great number of links pointing to him that say SEO in the anchor, as pointed out by him that some people think of him as an SEO. Now THAT will be interesting to see. If anyone keeps up with that, please email me and let me know. I just don’t have the time for that kind of test right now.

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  58. POOPeGifts_com

    This post just shows you how great of a marketer the J man really is. I might just write a post on my blog to give him props for once again stirring up the emotions of those that consider themself SEO’s.

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  60. How To Rule The World

    HAHA… josh, maybe you are right… it is probably just a masterminded trick and attempt to get some SERP for the term SEO. If he has effectively stirred up enough attention, and with all the commenting on SEO, and all the linkbacks to this article with proper anchor, it may be possible to get a decent rank. But then again the competition is 151 million for that term… Can he do it?

  61. Anthony a.k.a. OldSchool

    Shoe, I was disappointed to read this. It’s the same old tired “don’t trust SEO’s” argument that many have ranted about before. Why is it sad? I think it is a cheap shot at the industry used as link bait, which lumps all of the bad guys with the good guys.

    Every industry has idiots and scam artists – doctors, judges, teachers, etc. It’s really all about integrity. Some people have it and some people don’t. Those that don’t will often profit at the expense of the ignorant, but many end up like this guy

  62. Big Oak

    Not only is the post about you link bait, the entire site is just one big piece of link bait. An entire site devoted to explaining why other sites don’t know what they are doing… But then again, the title of this post, “Why I do not like 95% of SEO Experts” is pretty link baitesque itself, don’t you think :-) Off topic, your Internet Marketing Ninjas videos were excellent.

  63. steveffeo

    SEO is just one part of the marketing sauce.

    Many SEOs seem to present a magic light switch that a client can pay for. This is very bad Karma for the industry.
    The good Internet marketers realize it is a 7 prong attack (atleast)
    Building an honest and great brand, Great writers, Web 2.0, SEO, Great design and usability, Traditional marketing, and Networking.

    I can think of only 3 people/companies who understand this.

    Shoe great work with the UFC Hope Randy comes back and Ty for tip about Photrade

  64. Kenric

    What kind of excuse is this? Who launches before they are ready? It’s like setting up a store and not configuring the shopping cart. Isn’t RSS feed like closing a sale?

    Please, with the 5 days old crap.

  65. Ryan

    BigOak – So, have you read any of my other posts on my “piece of link bait” site? No. Because if you had, you wouldn’t have looked so foolish making a statement like that.
    I made the site to help people new to SEO figure out a thing or two to help them out. I never claimed to be a high and mighty SEO expert, all I did was given solid, proven advice, and used a list of well known bloggers as examples. But, as someone earlier said, as soon as you talk SEO, the shit starts flying, which in the case of my 5 day old blog, is very useful. Thanks for your time.

  66. Will

    I couldn’t agree more. Seems like most people are just trying to earn a little $ advertising their SEO services which don’t really seem legit at all.

  67. Ryan

    Josh, I’m a little dissapointed in your choice of words there. I’m not a dick, I’m not evil.

    I gave sound advice on a real topic, and I used a list of good bloggers for examples. Hmmm, yeah, I’m evil alright….

    I work in SEO, I haven’t stated anything in my article that any SEO wouldn’t know…so what’s the big deal? How am I not being helpful? Take a look at my other posts…and you’ll see what I mean.

    Is it against the law to write a post that gets some attention? No, you’re in SEO, you should know the answer to that.

  68. McBilly Wilford

    Sarcasm at it’s best Adam. ;) It’s normal people would associate you as SEO shoe, since you are pretty good at it. But like you said, most people only know one technique in SEO and that’s spamming links.

  69. Ryan

    Yeah, okay, you’re right. No Alexa, no PR.

    THE BLOG is 5 days old, are you that dense???

    Point me in the direction of any links from shoemoney on your blog, oh that’s right…you have none. And before you criticize a five day old blog about rankings…take a look at your 1,000,090 (almost got tired typing all of those zero’s)+ Alexa rank, and your PR0. I had more visitors yesterday then you had in two months.

    Case closed.


  70. McBilly Wilford

    Right on target there Jamie. I’ve read humorous seo experts claiming this is how to do this and that but in the end, the only technique they know is spamming a whole lot of links.

  71. Ryan

    Hey, bro, try reading the entire post first. No one was selling anyone SEO services, idiot!

    These comments got twisted at some point…and it’s from rocks like you that don’t take the time to read the article, rather you’re just worried about getting your little, tiny, insignificant link in the comment list =D Have a nice day.

  72. Ryan

    LOL, I love all of the shit talking, and no links…scared?

    And, who was talking shit, anyway? Read my article before you make yourself look stupid on such a nice blog. Most of the idiots above and below me played a simple game of “telephone”. It gets more and more twisted as it goes on…all I did was talk about the importance of title tags, and I ended up with a backlink from here, and many others. Oh, and I did your wife…damn..maybe that’s why you’re pissed. My bad!

  73. Ryan

    I never criticized anyone, read my article, and you’ll see that. The rest of the peasants here are the ones that flamed it up, and made it look like something totally different that it was. It’s quite hilarious, actually.

  74. Hustle Strategy

    I think this post ranks up there with the “great presidents vs greatest president” post… way to start a fire and get it to burn… I am sure there will be a follow up on how controversy is key. underdog vs. big dog, etc…

  75. Scot Smith

    What can I say… I agree with you.

    The guy seems like an SEO noob himself most likely but I won’t discredit his blog. He wants to start something so I won’t discourage him.

  76. Ryan

    While I’m definitely not an SEO noob myself…it’s a great relief to see someone with a respectful manner criticize me, instead of the ranting flames that most of it is. It’s too bad you didn’t leave a link, as I would subscribe just because of that comment =D

  77. William Ryall

    What you say about not being able to guarantee results isn’t true. I always talk to my client about what they hope to achieve, what keywords/phrases they want to rank for and what keywords/phrases I think they should target.

    If I don’t deliver on my promises/what we agreed upon I don’t charge them.

    Most SEO’s will say that it takes awhile for the effect of their work to kick in, which is completely true and is generally why I don’t ask for payment until they start ranking for the phrases/words they asked to rank for.

    I might not get paid straight away (in most cases though, the client will pay me before they start ranking for those words/phrases because we’ve built a good client/contractor relationship in good faith that I’ll return the money if I don’t come good with my promises.

    There are dirty people in every industry, SEO has an extremely bad name and it doesn’t help when people call out a whole industry rather than individuals. But as long as you can sleep with yourself at night, and are happy with what you do for a living, it doesn’t really matter what anybody else thinks.

  78. Alan Johnson

    A person can be considered a SEO expert after he/she has achieved great results with a few websites at the very least. It’s hilarious to see a lot of companies which don’t even rank for their own terms offering SEO services :)

  79. Alan Johnson

    Branding is always the name of the game since, let’s face it: if you receive penalties, people won’t be able to find you through search engines but I am having a hard time trying to figure out how they can be stopped when it comes to visiting your website by typing in your URL :)

  80. Alan Johnson

    I share your opinion: PR is not worth it any more so that the best way to judge a company offering SEO services is by looking into rankings from their own keywords and seeing if they practice what they preach.

  81. Alan Johnson

    Sure, SEO should never be neglected but focusing on content is what comes first since promoting a bad product will get you nowhere and anything built on a shaky foundation will definitely not last.

  82. Alan Johnson

    Exactly, and people who are actually capable of achieving great results don’t work for pocket change either. “You get what you pay for” is a phrase which applies when it comes to choosing a SEO company just as it does everywhere else. When you see a company making all sorts of promises and offering their service for peanuts, you should definitely think twice.

  83. Alan Johnson

    I agree that people have to find you first since (unless we’re talking about domains which receive a lot of type-in traffic) they’re not likely to type in your URL right from the start. Search engines, social media websites, ads on other resource similar to yours, the possibilities are endless when it comes to geenrating traffic but diversifying is always a must.

  84. Alan Johnson

    This post has already received a lot of exposure and things are not likely to end here. I guess it comes with the territory when you are writing about something controversial :)

  85. Big Oak

    “So, have you read any of my other posts on my ‘piece of link bait’ site”

    I may not have made my tone clear; I am not saying link bait is bad. In fact, link bait is what everyone should strive for when making blog posts, by and large.

    Using controversy to garner attention is a very effective marketing technique, when it’s appropriate. Controversy creates cash.

  86. Marc

    I think you could have titled this post “PUNK’D”

    Haha… that’s how that SEO must feel right now. What a n00b.

  87. Andrew Wilkes

    I think we have to be careful about teaching new webmasters that they need to focus on SEO. They may see it as yet another way to avoid the hard work of producing products and content.

  88. RacerX

    As John said in a video SEO is gaming the sysytem, however legally. It s like telling you how to reduce House Odds in Vegas.

    Unfortunately what happens is that those who do spend a lot of time on SEO outrank those with better content, or perhaps, even with your content!

  89. neyne

    why does SEO have to stand up to higher standards than any other industry in the world? “SEO this, SEO that”. As if all the affiliate marketers out there produce high quality content for the benefit of the world. the same post could be written about affiliate marketing, telemarketing, shoe salesemen, cotton candy pushers ….

  90. Making The Money

    Everybody who has coded the least liitle bit of HTML now considers themselves an SEO expert. Somebody hires them, they waste their money and then people don’t like SEO’s anymore. I’ve always sold my SEO/SEM skills on the fact that I operate my own webistes to a position of income where I don’t need their business. It’s true, I make enough from my own websites to not worry if people want to hire me or not.

  91. Webmaster T

    This is why SEO’s are like used car salesman…
    Ouch… If I were a real Guru I’d be insulted
    1) They can always sell you something.
    Sorry man… telling me I can’t sell is like telling a ho she can’t go out obn a friday night!
    2) They can never guarantee results.
    I could… but why should I?
    3) They can not be held accountable.
    HMMM, I do deals based solely on sales improvements so… is that accountable enough
    4) They have a answer for everything.

    5) All the magic happens behind the curtains – they cant tell you what they are actual doing because that would be getting to much into the secret sauce.
    No Way… I finish the site and they are kicked to the curb in 3 months so I insist they know how to maintain it because “Homey don’t do that!”
    6) Anyone can be a SEO.
    Look at me hardly the sharpest knife in the drawer considering it’s 4:48 and I’m here commenting rather than sleeping!

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  93. Danny Sullivan

    I took Jason Calacanis to task for calling 95 percent of SEOs crappy around the same time last year, primarily because I didn’t think it was fair of him to tarnish an entire industry based on his anecdotal assessment of the relatively few he talked with.

    I don’t disagree at all that SEOs have that “used car salesman” reputation in many quarters. And you’ve talked to lots of people, too, Shoe. But really — it has to be 95 percent of all SEOs you want to write off?

    I’d have rather seen you say something like “lots” or “many” rather than declare a majority of those out there to be bad unless you’re absolutely certain it is the majority. I’d have also rather seen the post say something like “why SEO gets a used car salesman reputation.”

    Of course, writing off the entire industry will be a catchier headline and certainly attract the controversy :)

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  95. Stefanie

    Can they guarantee results? Unless the client started out as the worst-optimized site ever, you’re not going to be able to make a lot of guarantees. I get sales calls from SEO companies all the time, and the slimiest ones are usually the ones that try to promise certain results. Unless Google itself is calling, I don’t buy any claims about specific results.

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  97. Josh Garner

    Read the comments again buddy. I didn’t call you a dick, that was 1 above mine. But now I’m calling you a dork. My advice, Ryan, would be to be a little more careful with your own words. I’ve made the same mistake (and will likely do so for the rest of my life) of talking before I really look into something. Just helpful advice.

  98. Tyler Dewitt

    That was a great post Jeremy!

    I’d have to agree with you some people have a tendency to draw negative attention I think we have all done it at times, but some people cross the line if that made any sense…

    I think there a way of baiting people, but in a more positive way and not a negative way I mean who is to say what your doing is wrong with your titles, so in other words who to say if your wrong or right on how you do your titles.

    People come to read your blog because of the content and who you are not because of you titles and if you ask me titles hardly have next to nothing to do with search rankings as what links do which granted titles might help, but not like inbound links do and viral content :)

  99. Hallo

    SEOs never consider the Power of Branding. I never find any seo gurus site ranking for seo except seobook.com.

  100. Seo Design Solutions


    I hope your definition of the 5% of SEO Experts out there that you do like and respect would appreciate such a smear. Taking pot shots like that was simply a bad move as you crossed the line from linkbait / rant to straight up insult. Tisk, tisk. And by the way I am already a millionaire from a previous venture, so SEO for me is not about the money, it really is about passion and those comments were just cold blooded.

  101. Dave Eaves

    Shoe this sucks big time, in the UK I would say that 60% – 75% provide descent services. Most business people are far to busy doing what they do to even think about doing their own SEO. SEO’s who know someone from the search engines are the only ones who can help – WTF!

  102. Ryan

    I’m definitely an expert :)

    I didn’t say anything that didn’t make sense…still not sure about all the fuss. If you need any links built, let me know.

  103. nBridges Media

    For me the most unfortunate part is to see clients who are totally ignorant and believes that SEO companies can do wonders.

    I get daily 3-5 mails where people want to get on top of google in 3 weeks for weight loss pills for the sites which are launched 3 days back. I think only such people badmouth SEO’s. Ofcourse there are bad fishes as well but they are in every field of internet :)

  104. Arejay

    Yea all the millionaires I know really tell there own net worth, let alone on a blog. If you made a million year ago, you would still be busting ass until that turned into $10Million, then on from there. So lol to you, you prove the shoe’s point about SEO’s.

  105. Josh

    Hey Ryan,

    I think you are a genius. Throw up a blog…..make a couple posts….talk some smack …. get front page coverage on Shoemoney.com. In only 5 days!!! Brilliant!!! You should post about this experience. Seriously … (ok, not really)

    My blog is only 5 days old … it is incomplete … I have a PR0 …. I have no Alexa. Hmmm… now, If I can only think of the right smack ….

    I will throw out some smack and see what happens.

    Good luck with your site. Looks like Shoe has given you a great push. I would be appreciative of such exposure.

    In two weeks, if only the 25% of the 14,000+ subscribers to this site remember seonoobs.com and check up on you to see how you are failing, that is at least 3,500 people that might get a chance to change their minds about your “expert” opinion. Get the chip off your shoulder, take this in stride and start posting your best stuff right now.

    I’ll hang up and listen…

  106. Alan Johnson

    Actually, most people call him a professional blogger as well even though he always denies being one, since he earns a lot more through other ventures. First impression, what can you do :)

  107. Alan Johnson

    Sure, having great conent helps you establish a solid foundation but traffic from the search engines should not be neglected either, and neither should SEO.

  108. Catherine Lawson

    Thanks Josh – I will check out the site. Have read half of SEO book so far, and will definitely read the rest – it is v interesting. But, I must admit – whilst I’ve used some of the info on a couple of sites – I really don’t understand wordpress at all.

  109. Catherine Lawson

    Aaron – I read about title tags in your book. And they work great on normal website. But, I don’t know what i’ve done with my blog. Every time I write a new post – the page title appears as the blog title, if you see what I mean. I’m stuck.

  110. Catherine Lawson

    Sorry Ryan – it was me that called you a dick. Maybe that was a little harsh. And as Josh explained – maybe I’ve been bumping into some bad SEO people.

    The trouble is, SEO isn’t everything. It can get people to your site, but it can’t keep them there. And Shoemoney was probably pissed off because you criticised him, even though your own ad page sucked.

    Then again, you could have bribed him to get you all this attention and increase your stats. Who knows? But, I’m just sick and tired of all these argumentative people bumping me off the top commentors list.

  111. Utah SEO

    A pretty good generalization. Accurate for the most part, but the SEOs you probably associate with don’t fit that category or maybe they do.

  112. Popular Wealth

    I’m the 5% Shoemoney loves so you’re all out of luck. Argue with me on that and I’ll bench press your car – with you in it.

    Hows that for my impression of SEO talk ? heh (sad thing is I’ll SEO circles around most, i love it, but I’m not so hot at content writing yet so nobody will ever know… shhhhh!)

  113. Adam

    I think it actually takes up more than 1/3rd of my screen. It actually beats John Chows header in wasted space. Am I allowed to mention that name here?

  114. Shady

    So let me get this straight Shoe, you (a superstar affiliate marketer among other things) pride yourself on making money in “gray areas” (to the point of bragging about it in your podcasts) yet feel justified in accusing 95% of SEOs of being “21st Century car salesmen” and “slimy”? So when you killed it in ringtones, which is really the only reason this blog ever became successful, did you feel guilty for tricking teenagers into signing up for “free services”, knowing that they or their parents would later receive anonymous charges on their phone bills as a result of your “marketing” efforts? Think of the confusion, hurt feelings, and family arguments that must have caused. But just to clarify, that type of behavior isn’t slimy, right?!? Yet, helping a company: clean up their directory structure; use 301 redirects instead of 302s or meta-refreshes; remove duplicate content; create a logical navigation structure; improve internal linking; buy directory listings; and help them find external links from related sites is slimy? Hmmm, I see your point.

    Quality loses its quality when it no longer provides value. I’ve been reading your blog for about two years, and aside from being mildly entertaining, I’m not sure it exemplifies quality or provides any real value. Nonetheless, I have to find something to kill the time during my breaks from SEO.

  115. Pingback: PalatnikFactor.com » Are You An SEO Expert?

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  118. sean

    what is the implication here concerning having the search engineers phone numbers and being able to call them? favors, graft, inside info? I doubt the companies would approve of those kind of back channels

  119. Luke

    In this business, credibility is important. It’s sad to say that, even though Ryan’s post wasn’t awful, his conduct in this thread has pretty much ousted him as a volatile and childish smack talker. PS. I posted a comment in your thread Ryan with some thoughts on the matter in question :)

  120. Pingback: SEO Throwdown : Daily Hypertext

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  122. Alan Johnson

    And on the other hand, there are a lot of people who expect top rnakings for fairly competitive terms to come cheap, pay a SEO who makes fake promises and then wonder why results are not worthwhile.

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  124. Dave

    If PR isn’t worth anything, then I’ll be glad to trade your PR4-5-6 link for my PR0. Is it a deal? Yeah, that’s what I thought….pagerank still matters and you’re a fool to think it doesn’t.

  125. Dave

    No small business (and when I say small, I’m talking under 25MM/revenue) should be paying that amount for SEO services. SEO Firms won’t help the average business owner. You’re much better off learning basic SEO from Stopmernet or something, then paying 5k out a month for links, articles, developing widgets, etc, etc.

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  128. Start Blogging

    The problem with these so called experts is that they only think how to bring visitors from google to your site, and now how to make visitors come back to your site!
    If your site is really good and it has quality content, you will get popular. People will spread the word one to the other, not the search engines!
    Think about it… how many times did google took you to an rubbish site?

  129. jamy

    I agree with my 10 fingers and 10 toes.
    I am so sick of the SEO, EOS, and the SOE.
    They are worst than snake oil sellers :).
    I rather visit your site than any snake oil sellers.

  130. Pingback: Badmouthing = Traffic! - BlueVerse

  131. Ryan

    Luke – when 50 people accuse you of something that is highly exaggerated and misguided, normal humans tend to get a little defensive. Yeah, I joined the smackfest for a bit, but it was all in fun.

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  134. Roseli Abu Bakar

    I am no SEO Expert but I manage to increase the pagerank of a few of my new sites during the last google pagerank update !!

    I believe, we should know a bit about SEO if we are making a living online :D

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  137. Pingback: 6 Reasons Why SEO’s are NOT Like Used Car Salesmen - Calling Out Shoemoney

  138. Allan Stewart

    This seems like a somewhat inflamatory post, writing pre-dominantly to get a reaction from an understandably protective industry. Scraping the barel as far as I am concerned.

  139. Pingback: Are you a slimy salesman if you do SEO? | Bud Calabrese - An Aspiring Internet Entrepreneur's Diary

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  141. Anthony Cea

    I would agree, most SEO forums are filled with people who think SEO is spamming forum threads with anchor text, some SEO’s use forums as fronts for their link sales scams, so you are right on, I have been saying this for years.

    The recent devaluation of interlinked directories (link farms) shows that most are lost when it comes to SEO, many of these guys who claim to be expert SEO’s were running bidding directories and submitting to every link farm directory on the planet.

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  144. Krunal Chauhan

    Wow, I really agree with you … most of SEO’s know only basic things (Spam your Title with Keywords stuffed, content should have 5% keyword density and Reciprocal link building) … lolll
    I know how frustration that is

  145. Pingback: PalatnikFactor.com » State of SEO Industry: Shoemoney & Danny Sullivan’s Most Significant Podcast Yet

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  147. Pingback: Why The SEO World Is Full Of Shit - Part 2

  148. John

    Now that I can take a few minutes from my real job as an SEO expert, where we actually see clients not spam them in order to make a living, here is my 10 cents on ShoeMoney’s little blog post which has caused such a stir in the online community.

    Why I hate …. ALL affiliate marketers.

    1) Affiliate marketers have this obscenest need to spam you and then think that there are highly involved and intelligent when they misspell words to get past the spam filters. Talk about slimy if I wanted cheap Viagra or some worthless stocks, I would Google a reliable source and order it.

    2) Affiliate marketers would sell there own mothers if the commissions were rite.

    3) Affiliate marketers bombard the internet with billions of doorway pages all pointing to some affiliates site that offers you nothing of real value …PLUS….PLUS PLUS ….PLUS PLUS PLUS …..

    4) Affiliate marketers make all the guarantees in the world but cant live up to one of them

    You know what Shoe you the man with your cute little superman logo, and yes you earn more than me without having to use a brain cell, by buying cheap domains and slapping a couple of ads on it…. I can sleep at night knowing that my clients traffic rates are up, their businesses are booming from my efforts, I spammed no one and didn’t give guarantees I couldn’t live up .

  149. Pingback: Shoemoney vs. Danny Sullivan

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  154. ShowYes

    I met the ShoeMoney because of the famous check Adsense. But the blog is not only this number has very interesting post … Including various posts of shirts =D (Using Google Translate)

  155. Pingback: SEOmythology.com » Blog Archive » Too much BS!

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  157. Loewenherz

    You’re so sweet. We don’t have a answer for everything. Anyone can be a SEO? No. It’s easy for anyone to say “I’m a SEO”, but it’s hard to be a good SEO.

  158. Pingback: Can Search Marketers Grow Up? | Social Media Explorer

  159. Ben

    Hmm…optimize title tags, optimize meta tags, write relevant content, build backlinks…what’s so hard about that?

  160. Pingback: Clicksharp Marketing » Blog » Paid search advertising: the best insurance policy for SEO

  161. thomasram

    If optimizing title tags, optimize meta tags, write relevant content, build backlinks is what just SEO means why only certain sites are getting into top? why not other sites?

  162. Pingback: Why SEOs are pieces of shit. « Optimize Me

  163. Paul

    We have been taken for 5 large the first 3 months of optimizing. We got nothing for the money so now we take it all upon ourselves for anything regarding SEO. This is the most honest thing I have heard about SEO in a long time I wrote an article describing the day in the life of the SEO. From when he wakes up to play xbox to right before bed smoking grass and playing more xbox.

  164. Ty Brown

    I get those calls also. I know next to nothing about SEO but as I start to ask the salespeople questions I always find out that I know more than them.

  165. Pingback: 95% of SEOs do not know jack - Calling out Winning The Web! | Feed Flare

  166. Grant

    Wow, I can’t say I have ever seen a longer bashing of a legitimate job. I am a SEO expert.. everyday I work 9-5 at a large online SEO/SEM marketing firm. In no way shape or form is our business made up or selling snake oils.

    We provide a legitimate service to our clients with proven results. I have worked on some major corporate sites that deal in millions of hits a day and have done site reports in upwards of 100+ pages for their sites.

    Just because some kid came along and tried to push their $50 IM consultation on you is no reason to bash the industry.

  167. Syed Balkhi

    from your end i can understand what you are saying, but i have to agree with shoemoney here because there are never any guarantees for results. I might be paying crazy amount of money for SEO and get less benefit. Whereas if i learn it myself and do it (which i did) i can get much better results for much lower price.

  168. File Snatcher

    “When you create a good, useful service/site people will actually want to come to your site without you spamming Google.”

    Well said. This post has actually got me thinking a lot the past few days about the ways I’m going about doing things with my sites.

  169. Pingback: Port80 ThreadMonitor » Shoemoney Calls SEOs Clueless Slim!

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  173. web marketing blog

    I would have no idea how to find your site Shoemoney if it hadn’t been for someone I knew.

    I can make you a better proposition then. Here goes:

    1) I have nothing to sell you.

    2) Since I am not selling anything, I don’t need to guarantee anything.

    3) You can hold me accountable.

    4) I don’t have most of the answers.

    5) I will gladly tell you what I am doing.

    You have to admit some of your statements are a bit useless. Who is going to work for free? Who is going to guarantee anything when no one has the actual recipe (and that recipe can change daily)? Since the success of most SEO’s depends primarily on his ability to discover things not known by other SEO’s.

    Rule #1, never respond to unsolicited seo requests (esp. email, according to google’s own guidelines). I don’t do SEO for others, but really, the only way you’re going to find a good one is via a friend that has done well.

    P.S. Not everyone that sells widgets on a website can have amazing compelling websites, so therefore we should give up and let someone else do it. Perhaps you can help my yo-yo string site get really popular like yours by simply writing some hip posts.

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  176. Link Buider

    erm… seo is useful! Animals have survived by adapting to their environment. therefore, adapt to this environment and deal with something you can’t change, right :3

    but if you rly want to stop seo, it’s not helpful just complaining. propse a solution, or program your own search engine w/c features high-quality sites. then people will start to believe you. Am i wrong?

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  179. Pingback: The Sad State Of The SEO Industry - ShoeMoney®

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  181. BusinessX

    This post and the Screw Google Mentality are two posts that go together well. Concentrate on the things that matter, only when one gets the basics down, then worry about details.

    Another benefit of learning basics first, through that process one will learn which details matter, not what a guru or expert says that matters.

  182. Linda

    I agree with you. I have been on the web since 1999. Selling on Ebay and running a very quiet internet safety site and speaking to schools Then I ran out of money and now I am trying to make some money online. I am in awe of all the success you and others have had, (OMG that google check!) I am making about $20.00 a month from my google ads and I added Chikita to a few blogs and I have made .24 cents in 2 months. I am a single mom and I signed up for your newsletter. I hope I can implement some of your successful techniques.

  183. Антон

    Вот что-то похожее у меня уже почти год из головы не выходит!

  184. Pingback: SEO- Why Worry? | XRIOT XBLOG

  185. Derek Pryde

    Way too many seo experts are just chancers offering (spamming) services .

    Everyone should do their own seo.

    I’ve had loads of relevant 1st page search listings for years, and it hasnt been difficult to do.

  186. Анатолий

    Просто замечательно – очень интересные мысли. Разжевано специально как бы для меня :)

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  192. Blake @ Props Blog

    I’ve read all these things by SEO experts and people claiming they can help with SERP, but they all seem to be poorly ranked or have very weird and useless keywords. Furthermore, none of them seem to have the traffic they claim to be able to build. SEO experts are useless, no doubt about it.

  193. Moo Kahn

    I wish you (and every other ‘blogger”) would learn the difference between “you’re” (contraction of YOU ARE) and “your” (possessive pronoun) .

    “.. however if your going to bait me ” makes absolutely no sense. THINK. ..If YOU ARE going to bait me… = you’re not your.

    Ditto they’re/there/their Ditto it’s (IT IS) and its

    Why can’t bloggers use English and not bloglish?

    Am I playing PIA schoolmarm ? NO. Don’t you want to sound like you have an IQ of 140…(Obama) instead of 70 (George Bush)? These flubs make your writing unreadable as well as making you sound illiterate, which I know you are not.

  194. Moo Kahn

    BTW – I TOTALLY agree with you re: SEO “experts”. There is no such thing. They can’t tell you what’s going on under the hood because they HAVE NO FREAKING IDEA. In fact, what you really need to do is code a nice clean site, follow the W3C “rules” for HTML and CSS… and just like you say… PROVIDE SOMETHING OF VALUE THAT PEOPLE WILL WANT TO LINK TO AND COME BACK TO. It really isn’t any more complex than that. A friend of mine works at Google and will confirm every word of this to be true (but will then have to kill you). Actually, Google tells you everything you need to know about SEO in its webmaster tools.

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  196. Club Penguin

    It’s just about having the right software. I don’t think they know any more about it than I or the average user who puts a little effort into reading about it.

  197. Matt Smithson

    I think this is more of the case of a few bad apples ruining the whole bunch. While I will not argue that there are many bad seo’s preaching that they can increase revenue for companies and not deliver, much like the mentioned sleazy car salesman, there are also many others who provide great service and wonderful knowledge as well.

  198. SEO

    I think since SEO is not an exact science, if and when an specialist promise anyone Google’s top rank is indeed just pushing the sales. Hence; we all should be wary.

  199. club penguin

    SEO services are overrated for the most part

    I have had nothing but bad experiences from them. They either do something I can’t see, that never works, or do something that I can already do.

  200. Andrew North

    Personally my thoughts are that it is hard to become well established with in this industry these days due to the many cowboys out their that have give so many a bad experience it is a shame as their is some excellent experts out their.

  201. Mrityunjoy Kundu

    Guaranteed and SEO Optimisation Services Ranks Your Website in Top Position on Major Search Engines Like Google, Yahoo and MSN. Outsource Your SEO Projects At Affordable Cost.

  202. Kenneth Berkley

    I have just come across this post and it was a great read, i dont think any one can deny that their are a few bad cowboys out their just like in most industries.
    However i am sure their are people that can help and it is those people that we should be making others aware of.

  203. tulsa online marketing

    I really like that topic, I am inside web marketing/SEO. Have you ever heard as in meetup.com? I find there presently exists regularly a number of good possibilities to satisfy and netwoork with others to our destinations. It is best that you test it out in case you become period.

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  209. Kelly

    No one can really GUARANTEE SEO results, but I do agree with most of your post. Good, reliable SEO experts are hard to find, and in this day and age, sometimes harder to keep as they move onto other projects.

  210. photolink digital

    Having read the majority of these comments i have to agree that no one should be guaranteeing first position listings in google an if they are do not be fooled even the best will not say this to you.

  211. Theron Dominiguez

    Ive been looking for a good blog to keep up with and finally found it Its so nice to be able to search something on the internet and actually find something that is worth while reading. Keep up the good work.. Be Back soon.

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  214. Cairns magnets

    It’s really hard to be an SEO Expert and you have to ranked the sites on first page to google. So I can say that this blog is useful on us. Just keep on posting. Thanks

  215. Hautschoen

    I read the article very good and I think that most is true. The problematic with Seo`s that they all can speak very well and you never know which from them you can trust or which from them are really good. Its rare to finde directly and good seo.

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  217. lauren

    Nice post. I am very new to SEO and online marketing. I was looking up lawyer SEO to see if it differs from doctor SEO or small business SEO. Or is all SEO the same for every kind of business?

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