So like I like Matt Mullenweg. He has been a guest on my radio show but now he is leading this huge thing with other wordpress people to ban sponsored links. Ya Matt Cutts applauded them for this yayayaya whatever.
Here is what I think. (and i have no inside information its just my opinion). I think soon your going to see wordpress.com hosted blogs allow Google Adsense and its going to be a huge deal. So right now the wordpress gang will do whatever they need to not piss off Google.
So let me get this straight. No more sponosored links on themes. The only links that can come with wordpress is the ones YOU MATT MULLENWEG and all your friends embed in the default install of wordpress? Also like all of you guys have sold text links or have adsense or making money off your default dashboard and embeded links.
I mean I have seen software that embeds links like you guys do with the default blog roll and its called Adware. I dont think you should act like your taking the high and mighty ground here bucko.
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Shoe I was thinking the same thing. Its funny how Matt ranks #1 for the name Matt on Google. He is even cocky enough to put it on his business cards. Now all of a sudden they have morals about what links people who work hard can place on there items? THANK YOU FOR HAVING THE GUTS TO CALL HIM OUT
I totally agree with you Shoe (and Roger as well). I’ve always thought even the discussion of not allowing theme designers to place sponsored links was bullshit and now Matt is backing it up?
I think WP will lose a lot of very talented developers because of this mess and I don’t blame the developers at all. I’ve been planning a WP theme release for awhile (sponsored links auctioned on DP) and now I’m thinking twice…
that’s bullshit…
i don’t understand why some people feel the need to cry over things that happen on other sites? the designers of these themes take the time to put the theme together and if they add a link, what’s the big deal? if they spam links in the theme then i feel many people who care, would chose not to use the theme.
sometimes i feel the blogosphere has the biggest group of cry babies on the net. “oh no, making money with your blog is bad.. commercialism, blah blah” – “oh my god! sponsored posts? what’s the world coming to?”
I’m not so interested in sponsored links as such, but if I design a WP theme, surely I have the right to include a link in the footer to say “WP Theme Designed By…”?
As you say, if it’s acceptable for the WordPress team to have their links embedded by default in each new install, surely there’s no problem with a theme designer getting a bit of link love?
I think it’s only fair to get rewarded for the work a developer puts into a WP theme. Removing the links takes away one of the ways for him to earn something for his work.
If someone doesn’t like the sponsored links they can simply pick another theme, that isn’t sponsored.
Your explanation about staying on Google’s good side sounds very plausible. It’s a shame that it has to be that way.
Gerard: I think the “Theme Designed By…” is still cool, what they don’t like is “This Theme Is Sponsored By Flintstone Cars”
It’s been announced several places we plan to integrate Adsense at some point, but that’s because it’s what our users are asking for, not because we have any sort of special relationship with Google. (We don’t.) In fact they own our biggest competitor, Blogger.
If you do consider the default blogroll, which was not created for SEO purposes and isn’t paid for, to be adware then I don’t see how you can be defending paid-for advertising hard-coded into themes.
Finally we’re not trying to restrict what links people put in their themes, paid or not, but we’re just saying on our sites we’d rather not promote them. You’re welcome to promote them elsewhere, maybe even a site of nothing but sponsored themes?
First of all, Wordpress.com is a free service. Anyone who uses a free service and who wants to set the rules should see the contradiction there.
Second of all, if money is exchanging hands the owner of the service deserves a cut. If no money is exchanging hands then it’s not a “sponsored link” is it?
Wow… that sucks. Oh well.
I’m on both sides of the argument. Since I develop themes myself, never with sponsored links because personally they just look tacky. But if a designer gets offers I think they should minimize it to just one link per theme.
It gets kind of ridiculous when you see “Flowers, Credit Card Offers and Mortgage Payments” all in the same line at the footer.
Personally if you’re going to get a sponsor just keep it simple, link with the domain name and not a silly keyword. It makes it look more professional.
But yeah, Matt I don’t think you should give a one liner saying, “Before WordCamp all sponsored themes should be removed from themes.wordpress.net.” Sounds to bossy, ya know what I mean.
Matt,
Simply, stop hugging tress and kissing Google’s a$$. Yeah, your product is great(WP), but thats where it stops.
I applaud this post. I understand that people don’t want links in the themes they use but the fact is it takes effort to make the theme and us authors deserve to be rewarded for it. We could sell it to a single buyer or we could let anyone use it. And the fact that the WordPress guys have their own links embedded in the default install is a bit hypocritical.
What a lame crock of sh!t. Matt can imbed whatever links he wants and then he’s going to turn around and stop people who spend a great deal of time and effort building a theme for free in exchange for a link or two. What a joke. I love wordpress but the politics over there suck. Shoe you should start a free theme site and let people post sponsored themes and “embed” a link to shoemoney.com automatically.
People should be able to do whatever they want. This is ridiculous.
I’ve seen people lose their ranking for their own name (with the last name, if I might add) on Google. What happens to all the business cards he’d given out if or when that happens?!? Such a pity.
Your logic for integrating Adsense at user request doesn’t seem to apply to links on themes. By refusing to promote a theme that someone has developed for your software, you’re taking a shit on someone else’s effort.
“Oh, thanks for the new theme.”
You’re right, that was hard.
I would say any links have value regardless if they are paid upfront. Do you think the dashboard wordpress sites which sell ads would get any readership if they were not embeded?
Good luck with this one….ban links in the footer, sponsored or not and the level of design and development within the wordpress community will fall tremendously. Take that element out of a free open source community and watch another take over. Mindless!!
As a theme developer myself, i do not add “sponsored themes” but do include links to work of my own or sites I am affiliated with in some way. (why the hell wouldn’t I?…as most designers I am way to busy to develop free themes for my health)
What’s next, Matt gives us an ultimatum on links in the footer of our own sites?? What a god complex…
Cordially playing by Matt’s rules,
Jamey
I totally agree, no sponsored link on something that someone spent a lot of work on? That’s bogus… people who don’t want to show the theme maker some love can always take it off.
Can you please set aside a couple hours and learn the difference between your and you’re, and between its and it’s?
Good luck with this one….ban links in the footer, sponsored or not and the level of design and development within the wordpress community will fall tremendously. Take that element out of a free open source community and watch another take over.
As a theme developer myself, I do not add “sponsored themes” but do include links to work of my own or sites I am affiliated with in some way. Why the hell wouldn’t I?…as most designers I am way to busy to develop free themes for my health.
ahhh… thats’ why i’m still with blogger…
I do see a lot of hypocrisy in this. I don’t believe that people should hide links with codes however I dont think anyone should remove copyright links, period. If you don’t like a theme that has a copyright link on it then dont use it.
I agree. I thought that was the point to open source.
You know part of the problem is the designers got greedy…..
At first they got rewarded for their work by getting a free “Designed By” link. Then they realized they could make a little coin by adding a sponsored by link. Now…… you see designers creating themes JUST to sell the links AND not just one link. No, they have to auction off Link 1 | Link 2 | Link 3 etc.
That’s frickin ridiculous. Who the hell wants a theme they have to host 4 footer ad PR sucking links on?
Greed.
I totally agree with you…sponsored links is another form of “advertising”. So, people with wordpress or a site isn’t allowed to sell advertising on their site? I’m with GeorgeB, that’s ridiculous.
hay GeorgeB if people don’t want those links in their theme they can chose not to use that theme or simply remove the links. I just bought 3 links in a theme and I’m going to do it again or pay for my own theme to be built and offer it for free as this is an effective way to build backlinks. SO THERE…
great post, I can tell how much you love Matt
I think this is the right thing to do, so I’m going to do it whether it’s popular or not.
I agree that our Adsense plans aren’t related at all, but the blog post tried to draw a connection.
I don’t think we have a responsibility to promote advertising-filled themes any more than I promote the advertising-filled comments and trackbacks I get on my blog.
This posting is so on point. Removing the adware links is always the first step… I’ve been wondering if these are fiends of Matt’s or just paying customers.
So you seriously think that someone who designs a great theme should *not* get a bl on wordpress.com? That’s the lamest argument from any free software guy I’ve ever heard. But I really do like your sw.
May he’s already got such a site in the pipeline
Yeah, sure, there’s always an edge to it… but most people don’t make a business model out of it.
Greed rules(d) the designers mind…
The way I see it, it does not matter. The blogroll links are easily removed. So should these sold links. As is mentioned in the Weblog Tools post, Theme authors can’t require people to keep these links intact in the first place.
So allow them, but just educate everyone who downloads Wordpress that they are free to remove all the blogroll links and free to remove the links embedded in any particular theme.
Stupid move on their part, I will not be doing any more themes for wordpress now.
Such a stupid thing to do especially when they pre-embed all their links in the blog roll as shoe says, this pissed me off so much when I saw it.
Matt Cutts is stepping on everybodies toes. Who is he to decide whether or not websites can sell paid links. What an ass.
I hope that themes.wordpress.net will follow the initial movement and I can only encourage everyone to speak out for it. sponsored themes just overcrowd the free themes; it is a matter of visibility. surely some themes are looking great, but with no indication users are totally kept blind (they could just scroll down and see the casino links on their blog, but what the hell… it’s not clear enough, is it?)
Matt Mullenweg always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. A brite guy with a very particular ethical view that always ends up being hypocritical if followed to the logical conclusion. Just like Craig Newmark (A guy who despises commercialism and profiting by others yet runs a website which is 100% advertising).
I think Mullenweg doesn’t understand that this could give another blogging platform the impetus it needs tocome to the fore and marginalize Wordpress over the long term. At it’s root, this will be an economic principle at work in the devaluation of Wordpress. I think Mullenweg studied economics.
Shoe,
I think, just like in so many political issues, those that have a grasp on power, try to maintain it by pushing their ideas/ideals on others without regard for their own actions. The only problem is that they don’t realize who got them to their position (the users in this case).
As these issues continue to grow, the only thing that comes from it is the exploiting of their own faults and leaves them open for opportunities of others to take them down.
As more and more people turn to the Internet and it becomes more influential in the “common” man’s life, the landscape of the net can change (dramatically).
“The more you tighten your grip,” Google “, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.”
That sucks! Anyone who creates a theme should be able to profit from their work by taking on sponsorship. Receiving a reward should not be a penalty. Shoe, you are right, the default theme is flooded with WP & friends links, this is so hypocritical. If their plan is to penalize those who modify or montenize their software then they need to reconsider promoting this software under the GNU/GPL license, because accepting sponsored links doesn’t go against the terms of the license. Though, I am sure their next move would be to have lawyers taking theme designers to court for making money of their product. HATERS!
this is stupid!Removing links takes away someone chance to make money. If a wordpress user doesn’t like the sponsored footer links they can simply use another theme or paid a designer. a designer who distribute his/her WP themes for free deserves to make money on it!
Welcome to the fall of Wordpress theme development :p
Must say, we do live in interesting times! I for one am very very curious to see, where matters evolve from this juncture.Personally I have just spent over $2000 on a custom theme, come have a look and see, whether, I got value for money or not. What does sit naggingly at the back of my mind though, is whether or not, the dude I paid to do the heavy lifting with my designs, is then going to go and offload the theme, with his links as a freeby for download elsewhere. hahaha…I know I can Trust the Guy, but hey who really knows…sorry if this is sligghtly off topic
yeah go ahead remove them and there won’t be any quality themes released, there by you are doing a disservice to your own users. You are chopping off a valuable resource
We will see a big drop in new theme releases.
Designers & Coders are putting there time and efforts in making new themes.
I don’t see the problem if Designers and coders getting few bucks by selling sponsor links,They getting paid for there time and efforts.
though it could be better if WP make a limit on numbers of sponsor link on each themes.
Anyway good luck but
Matt you making a hole where wordpress theme development is going fall with “your” site.
DarkX
Biting the hand that feeds you much?
A lot of people starting out in the template design arena will spend a considerable amount of time to create a great WP theme and in return, only ask for a link back to their site. It helps them get their name out there. They’re not forcing anyone to use their theme, they’re simply saying “Hey, if you use this make sure you give credit where credit is due”. A great example of how excepted this is can be seen when you purchase a vBulletin license (among thousands of other scripts and templates). You have to pay to remove the link back to their site.
It’s a practice that is widely accepted and your decision to be the internet police is more apparently self-serving, there’s no point in pretending it’s altruistic.
If you’re that concerned about it, take a page from the book of good design and allow users to filter themes/templates by whether or not they’re sponsored or not.
Cut the crap Matt. Not only are you not doing a service to users looking for free themes, you’re doing a disservice to those who create free themes that enhance your software.
Yes, I agree since it is the only compensation they get for their hardwork.
Not the fall, at least not from me. I will still design and offer free themes.
If matt and WP users have a problem in picking out free themes from sponsored themes,it can be resolved by adding a new tag “sponsored” into their upload form and the serch form.
Right now they have 25+ tags on their search form to refine the theme search, they can sure add 2 more saying “free” and “sponsored”. In this way If users do not want download a sponsored theme, they just select “free” in the search, and select from whatever it displays. But trust me the results aint gonna be pretty, because most beautifull themes are sponsored.
Yes I agree that there is a flood of low quality themes with ad links. But the users have the liberty to choose them or not, don’t they? Then where is the problem? The problem lies here… Users want quality themes designed by designers who spend their time and money to get it done, but dont want to keep 2 or 3 safe links on the footer as a sign of gratitute.Then they should go ahead and spend some 2000$ to get a custom theme for themselves.
Its sick..
Alternative: b2evolution.net … shhh don’t tell anyone :->
I’m also against Matt’s step. He should rethink this crazy idea. I think that people should have a CHOICE. It is on their opinion and selection if they use sponsored or not a sponsoreds theme. Why they shouldn’t use them if they are looking good and they are well coded? Oh, yeah I know that’s just about one “themeviewer” website, but if you are going to do this then “your” AdSense would be for nothing – people will stop uploading themes on that website and build a new strong “themeviewer” … so you are just going to lose money and great theme designer&coders too..
IMHO.
I must say…I love Wordpress (mostly…there are some significant usability issues, as anyone who spends much time with it can see…), and there are some great themes out there.
On the other hand, being a guy who believe that people need to stand up and speak up for principled behavior…I can appreciate a call to minimize or eliminate sponsored themes…they are clearly getting out of hand. I had to search for a template for an important new site yesterday. I only had time to look thru about 200 of them, but I found several strong candidates. The final candidate, however, boiled down to the one with the LEAST sponsors embedded. That’s kinda sad.
But, I think the right response here is not to ban them…but rather to differentiate them somehow. Leave the free ones on themes.wordpress.net, but others can exist on some other site (no doubt, monetized as well) which won’t be actively promoted by Wordpress as an entity.
That solution, which everyone involved seems OK with, probably means less traffic for the other theme site…but more happy people in the long run. Cuz, as it is, it seems to me that themes.wordpress.net is DOWN way too much, and the overall usability (and effectiveness of feedback to the theme creators thru comments) could really be improved.
Bottom line: I think Matt’s doing what he feels is right to protect the integrity of his original idea (as he has every right to). And I feel that enterprising developers will find ways to grow the commercial side of the thing. Everybody wins! (climbs down off his soapbox and saunters back to his cave, safe in the knowledge that he has solved another of the world’s most intractable issues. Now, if he’d just get on with doing something about that whole Middle East thing!)
This dude has been drinking a lil too much of the special kool-aid mix. I’m going to need him to step away from the punch bowl and put the cup down.
yeah it needed to happen, i’ve been seeing some very average designs going up on there all for the sake of selling the sponsored link
What a crock that will kill some peoples aearnings. Many people purchase or sponsor a WP theme. I doubt this will stop it completely from happening.
I would also like to point out that this is what the majority of the community voted for in our ideas forum, so this is not a unilateral decision.
Funny how much time people can spend to bitch about some “Matt”-talk
reminds me on those 300 pages long WMW posts where “GoogleGuy” farted in post 252 and the reminaing 2500 posts where interpreting that *g*
Matt said:
“I would also like to point out that this is what the majority of the community voted for in our ideas forum, so this is not a unilateral decision.”
My argument…
You guys made them vote for… “tell us if you want us to remove themes with sponsored links” — and they voted YES.
Now, you start a new poll and ask them, “tell us if you want to remove our own default wordpress links from footer” — and do as the community votes.
then, probably ask them… “if they want to be paid $1 everything they download wordpress.” And maybe ask them, if they want… yeah whatever. Got it?
Lets see what happens then.
Its simple, no blog owner wants sponsored links in footer. But, he very well can choose ANY other non sponsored theme. There is no need for wordpress to put its nose in designer’s business. Because, every blog owner would also like to remove wordpress links too. But you force it – simply because you guys created wordpress — similarly, designers CAN force their link because THEY created it – not you.
whats the argument now?
Good point… even though I still don’t agree with Matt’s policy.
A fart can sometimes be very hard to decode
Just found out about this.
totally crap!
Well, I think I’m going to be the only one disagreeing with Shoemoney’s comments, his comments made me think that he’s doing this for a bit of publicity – I mean, being controversial is in the blog promotion handbook isn’t it
Here’s my thoughts on the discussion, for what it’s worth, when people stuck 1 or 2 sponsored links, no one really mentioned it, and we all know the designers need some recognition for their hard work – but it became a joke when people would get a theme designed, slap 6 sponsored links on it and then add it to WP.
This I think is a joke and probably the reason why WP have taken this tough stance.
Well the sponsored links can be something good, as long as there are some restrictions.
There’s a WordPress idea on removing Matt’s link is here. Note that it has a higher average rating than the ‘ban sponsored themes’ thread.
Well, this totally ruins my business. XD
Well, I was planning on using another script, no matter what happened. All my blogs got hacked.
What about designer’s credit? Would it be also removed? Something like “Design By XXX”…
What happens? Lots of blog posts titled “How to get pwned by your own stupidity” or something like that..
What you said raises a good point, by not providing “credit where credit is due”, it kind of steps back from what a lot of bloggers have been doing over the years, getting publishing on the net taken as seriously as print publishing. Try starting up a print publication, and say, start filling it with articles from the NY Times or whatever your favourite paper is, or excerpts from for favourite book, and see how much shit that gets you into. A theme is still content, it’s still someone’s work, by not crediting it you are really stepping into the plagiarism waters. On the internet, accepted practice has always been giving a link back to the author, same as in the print world an author gets a byline or some other obviously VISIBLE credit. Someone could probably make a real good legal argument to support that, too. Just what the world needs, another lawsuit. LOL But at least it be one worth fighting.
That’s simply not fair from the big guys. They don’t even remember that they did not become successful all of the sudden.
banning sponsored links is just stupid. Wordpress should focus on the script not such trivial things.
The abuse of WP themes was getting out of hand. I’m glad they are taking some action against it.
I have to second this. There are FAR TOO MANY sub-par themes out there that were clearly made just so sponsored links could be sold on them. And when you are trying to find a theme to use, it can be a pain in the butt having to go through all the crappy ones just to find the decent ones.
And personally, if I use a theme and there are sponsored links at the bottom that have nothing to do with the author who created the theme, I remove them. And if you look around on the net, most other people do as well. So the bottom line is that I think this is more an attempt to halt the flood of crappy themes more than it is to stop sponsoring themes.
Lots of great designers are doing less themes now…
That is a bunch of bull, stupid people don’t know how to take the links off I guess.
Matt Cutts, never liked the guy…
Like the fox in charge of the henhouse..
Haha, jeremy, good stuff. Give them the no BS type of answer that they deserve.
Spend $10 for a new set of 500 cards… repeat process. lol
Sounds a bit harsh
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This move will make abusers vanish slowly, but surely.
I actually use a lot of free themes and I keep sponsored links posted. It’s a lot of work to come up with these designs,…why not thank the creator.
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