Great advice, Shoe. Another even better reason not to be specific when firing is that as an employer you gain nothing by telling people why they are being dismissed.

If you want to be nice to them and try to give them advice, you should have done that in their last review. Its too late for that in the dismissal process.

The ONLY thing you accomplish when you are specific about an incident or a reason you are firing someone is you open yourself up to a potential lawsuit.

Keep in mind that to cover your rear, you technically need specific incidents DOCUMENTED ON PAPER with dates and actions taken. It is dangerous to fire someone because they have a “bad attitude” unless you can quantify that attitude and back your position up.

I have had to fire employees for drug use, chronic tardiness, chronic absence, inappropriate behavior, an just because the person turned out to be less than advertised on their resume. I am never specific, but I am always polite. If I can provide a good recommendation, I be sure to tell them that I will do so if they need any help finding a new job.

Firing people is not fun, but when you own a business you have to do it. It comes with the turf.

Thank god i took blogging at my full-time job! whos gonna fire me?

Great post shoe. I have never worked anywhere long enough to be fired I guess, but your points are great. I also think its a good point to tell an employee you fire, as long as you didn’t fire them for complete incompetency, that they can use you as a reference and that you will put in a good word.

Stressing that its not something wrong with them, but rather a mismatch with the position should help ease the tension.

You never write about what you do for fun. Do you have any hobbies? Are you a cornnhuskers fan? If so, Go Buffs! What are your interests outside of work and family?

Great post–getting fired is definitely a learning experience. There are definitely certain things I do and the way I conduct myself professionally because I, too, got fired (once or twice) LOL!

I cannot believe you walked out after working at Target for 2 days! Was that after or during the training they were giving you? Seems to me that when I worked there (I worked at Target for like 2-3 years during college), I had to go through their “Target University” training for like a week or two.

wow… nice record…

Donald Trump on how to fire someone “Whether you’re supernice or just plain blunt, the result is always the same: the person has been fired, and they’re going to hate your guts. Time might lessen the impact, but initially they aren’t going to take kindly to your trying to make it seem okay, because it’s not okay by them. So just be honest and let everyone move on.”

source: http://www.aarpmagazine.org/lifestyle/50_things_to_know.html

Thanks for bringing up this discussion point Shoe. When I was fired from my previous position, my employer did it with class and respect and let me know it was a business decision that they couldn’t escape. I tried working on my own for 6 months after that and then started the job hunt again. When my previous employer found out I was looking, they asked me to come back a different, more fitting role.

I think that if the situation had been different, if they named a reason I didn’t agree with or if I left in a fury and burned bridges, I wouldn’t be here today. I’m very happy with where I work today.

Despite never having been fired, I have a similar job history
Currys, Oldham, England - Store closed down
Currys, Hull, England - Store closed down
Fanny Farmers, Lancaster, PA - Store closed down
Royal Doulton, Lancaster, PA - Store closed down
Kerek Trucking, Lancaster, PA - Company closed down
Delmarva Millwork, Lancaster, PA - Going strong
Systems & Information Dynamics, Philly, PA - Almost closed down, scraps bought by SAP
AMP Inc, Harrisburg, PA - Closed down many locations after being bought by TYCO
ObjectShare Inc, Irvine, CA - Almost closed down, scraps bought by StarBase
SynXis, McLean, VA - Almost closed down, my division spun off as Innovectra
Innovectra, Vienna, VA - Still in business
RedBoots Consulting, McLean VA - Going strong

Good point, it’s never the one incident becuase if it were, they could work past it… it’s usually a bigger overarching issue of fit, even if it sounds like the cowards way out. If you fit but just messed up, you can work past it, if you didn’t fit… well it’s hard to get past that.

Hi Jeremy,
lol you do not know what inspires ppl, this article was quite an inspiration

Vijay
Web Enterpreneur

Firing people because of one incident is typical of this impulsive idiots type bosses - seen this happen many times, actually. I am the kind of person who has a hard time firing people, and for me it must be a really long series of incidents.

I LOVE happy Joes Pizza! Shame there isnt one closer to me, I have to have it as a treat now and then because the nearest one is an hours drive.

Ok, more on topic. Know the laws in your state. Most states are whats called “At will” states - meaning you can fire someone for no reason at all. If your not in an ‘at will’ state, then you need to deal with that state’s laws.

Your better off with a vague answer because then there is no debate. You’re not a good fit - is a great reason, because it cant be debated.

I have to say, it takes balls to post an employment record like that! I’ve never heard of anyone who has been fired 8 times.

Its his purple cow

Have you ever fired anybody?

I am 21 and I have had the joy of firing eight people, anywhere from $15/hr to $100k+ a year. I still remember my first (I was 20), and I was so nervous… I mentioned a bunch of specifics and he got very defensive (stupid me). He actually came to me after and said no hard feelings, you almost teared up (LOL).

Now I hold strong, you are not right for the company, sorry about this, it’s me not you. We provide good severance packages and I always emphasize that.

I was worried at first that it’s hard to start the conversation because they know it’s going to be bad, until I realized, so what if they realize it’s bad from the start or 3 minutes later.

Affiliate Money Maker, I am with you on this.

I usually give my employees multiple opportunities. Every time I call their attention, I make it clear what is it they are doing wrong.

In the rare situations that I have to fire or one of my mangers fires somebody, the employee in question is pretty much waiting for it to happen.

Best way to fire someone - have your attorney do it!

hehe

Wow, you’ve been fired a lot. I don’t think I’ve every been fired; however, my jobs always allow me to manage myself and have a strong opinion.

I did get kicked out of a water park today for, “not obeying the lifegaurds.”

After reading some of these posts I feel better about myself! At 51 I’ve been fired 3 times. All of them were because I was not a fit with the ‘culture’ of the business. Found out late in life I’m a better boss than employee.

I was asking shoe…

[...] lessons from guy who really knows how to benefit from the Internet. One of the recent post How to fire someone caught my eye. (Not that I’m planning to fire [...]

If there’s anyone who mastered the art of firing, it’s the Donald alright.

I agree; when firing someone, it has to be quick and as painless as you can possibly make it. Now, if they demand that you give them specific reasons for their termination, then that’s completely their right to know.

I came across your blog and this was the first post i read. Seeing your work history made me think of my own. I never fit in any of the companies that I worked for.

I started a small home based business (I still work full time) and enjoy that small business better than my regular job.

Your blog is great and has given many ideas about what I am doing with my career.

Thanks!

Learn the difference between “you’re” and “your”. Trying to sound like you know what you’re (note the apostrophe) talking about doesn’t work well if your (note the lack of apostrophe) writing looks ignorant.

[...] people reach a line of no return though. Shoemoney blogged about how many times he’s been fired. I guess when you make the kind of cash he does, [...]

Shoe, I don’t know how the law works over there, but here in the UK you have to be specific about why you’re firing someone. It is easy to fire someone if they’ve worked for you less than a year, but if it’s over a year, you have to go through a disciplinary process which would normal require you to discuss specific reasons why you’re not happy with the employees performance. It’s a real pain, and things do drag out, as you have to give them some warning that you want them to attend a meeting, then you have to have someone write everything down - you also have to give them the chance to appeal. Thought I better mention it incase anyone from the UK is reading your post, and gets themselves into trouble.

mmmm nah id rather get the job done myself, hiring someone only increases my work.

[...] found Shoemoney’s post about firing someone really interesting, especially since he list all the previous jobs he’s had and how many [...]

I was never fired as I can remember. I had to leave always from other not related reasons. But I do like work under presure and than it is time when I manage other people to help me. so I like managing others even I dont have the power.

Excellent post - I don’t think I have seen anyone else write about this before. I fired my first employee after only 3 days and later realized I was just expecting too much too soon. I really regret it now - he won’t work for me again.

I suspect he’s a machine. He never takes has to break

I was fired once and laid off another time. Between the ages of 18 to 25 I worked something like two dozen jobs and quit most of them after only a few months time. Talk about being bored!

I have been working for myself for nearly five years now, before that 10 1/2 years with one company. I guess I have finally settled down!

I love this!

Getting fired is one of the best things that can ever happen to someone. It really makes you become aware of the fact that you never really liked your job in the first place. Otherwise, you would have done better at it!

Much like women and dating. Men get “fired” before they even approach a woman, because they often don’t realize that the simple truths of eye contact, body language, and…

[...] week I talked about how to fire someone. Today I will cover my thoughts on hiring someone. A good prerequisite for this post is this one on [...]

[...] I’ll name two that pop to my mind immediately. Shoemoney was a humongous, in debt, gamer who couldn’t hold a job who turned his life around. He worked hard, married a doctor, lost weight and in the process and [...]

[...] and what its like before and after. Other weaknesses I have written about is the numerous times I have been fired, My top 10 worst ideas to make money online (new update coming) and even recently I talked about [...]

I hate having to fire people, and to that end, I’ve been pretty lucky. I was let go once (from Blimpie, of all places) WAAAY back, and I was fired once, back when I was lazy and playing pool 2 nights a week was more important to me than showing up for work those nights. These days, it’s the opposite and owning my own company gives me the ultimate in job security.

Hahaha, that cracked me up. I took working at home full-time too, nobody to fire me now! and i’m certainly not firing myself… anytime soon anyway =p. Great post shoe!

Your life story sounds just like whats about to happen to me.

The politicaly correct term is now “We thought you would be a better match for this position when we hired you” or something similar. The employer takes the blame.

good post, luckily i have never been fired, or had to fire someone yet

I’ve had to fire people for 15 years now have companies in 5 states. The way you have to look at it is firing someone is a confirmation that they are simply not right for the job and you are in fact doing them a favor in firing them. This gives them the chance to go find a job that they are good at and get satisfaction from. By keeping them in a job that they show is not their ‘cup of tea’ as they say, you hurt all of those around them, your company and even them as you delay them in finding their true calling.
I’ve had maybe 30 different jobs since I was 12 and never had the experience of being fired from one. I’ve quit them all when they weren’t right for me. I think I was lucky in knowing my strengths and weaknesses and knowing when to quit.
For those of you who are about to be fired or think things are not so good, there’s a good book called What Color is Your Parachute that maybe you should check out. If you must work a full time job and don’t have any business that is viable yet, listen to ShoeMoney and sites like this for advice. Keep a blog or site and start planting seeds everywhere in business. Shoemoney is great to learn about affiliate income, and alternate income sources. Also check out Dosh Dosh, Andy Beard and John Chow.
Also one minor note - finding the job of your dreams isn’t always possible. I had so many jobs and was unfulfilled in my life. I’m 38 now and have offline businesses in 5 states and do well. But to do that I worked a job that wasn’t the greatest ( Stockbroker) for like a decade. I look at it as sacrificing my life at that time for a better tomorrow. It worked, so maybe even my own advice to you is BS as I made the most money possible for myself in a relatively unhappy position.

the best way to fire them is to have an ‘off the record’ chat. tell them that unless you receive there resignation today, you’ll make sure they never work within the industry again. it sounds harsh and unfair, but that way they resign and dont get fired with a crappy mark against there name and you get rid of them, oh and it works

I am the same way, and
I was also fired from a pizza delivery job!

OMG! I’m sorry, I laughed hard because I thought it was so funny you just kept getting fired. Now, who can fire you? You’ve done a great job with this blog. I’d welcome your contributions to my Profitable Business Blogging program (www.howbloggersmakemoney.com). Best wishes and don’t fire yourself!
-Scott

I like the way you are not ashamed at all about getting fired–but I guess that’s because you proved people wrong. I think my ultimate goal is to run my own business the way I think it should be run. Like you, I definitely don’t want to be “managed” by anyone else–nor do I like “managing” others.

Personally I’ve never really been fired before, however I have had to terminate a few employee’s contracts. I think you hit the nail on the head, especially when stating it’s best not to get into a debate about a specific situation.

yep, i’m playing the “working on my business at my job… until I get fired from my job for working on my business” deal… so far I’ve gone about 3 months producing absolutely NO results for my company…
I’ll keep my fingers crossed…

You have to be cold. The worst thing you can do is to hire ppl just because u like them (e.g. friends, family members). Their work will suck and it’s hard to get rid of them!

I thought that you’re supposed to fire people like “The Donald”!

If the boss is actually giving feedback, the person being fired should not be surprised.

The best line I ever used was: “I’ve lost confidence in your ability to do this job.”

I’ve fired quite a few people in my career. I always try to boost their ego by telling them it was a business decision (duh), and that they can always use me as an employment reference. When I get that call, I just tell them the starting and ending dates and that this person just wasn’t a good fit for the position.

you fire people so kindly

gotta fire an employee for time theft/ gas theft (company car) in the next couple of days… wish me luck!!! thanks for the tips along the way.

fire someone - used to burn there things when their employment was ended by manager
sacking someone- not as bad used to put belongings in a sack and throw them out

12 jobs changed so far! and hopefully there won’t be any new addition to the list above :d I also feel its better to work with people who can manage themselves. Dealing with people who are inexperienced or not motivated enough to work can be a major problem.

I have not been fired directly, only let go, so I don’t have as much experience with firings. I am in the position where I may have to do this for my own employees, so this is good to know.

That’s a lot of jobs you’ve been through! Pretty impressive haaha !

At least you’ve found what you wanted to do.

-Dave

wow you can be a true success story .. after all those drops in your life … you still made it to the top

Great tip for success. I hope the day never comes that I have to fire someone but if it never comes then I guess my company really is not growing. I don’t want to fire someone but if it meant keeping my company growing in the right direction then I guess I would have to do the dirty deed and fire them. Trump makes it look so easy.
Rob West

Great tip, will probably help a lot of businesses to deal with workers not fit for their job

Donald Trump has taken the words “You’re Fired” to new levels. He even tried to trademark them.

I probably would use some different words to fire someone. “Your services are no longer required at our company.” or “We enjoyed your time here, but our company is going in a different direction.”
~Terry

Great point. Whenever you end some position, either you got fired by your job, or you fire your own job because its just not working out.

hahaha…. You are fired from so many places lol..

I think most of the people are not brave enough to keep record of their firing history. But that’s good that you are proud about it lol.

Hmmm… You are a living evidence that change is the only thing that is constant. Whether one likes it or not, there comes a time when he is either fired from a job or he fires his job. At least it must happen once in a lifetime.
Often times, when a guy has fought so well to resist being fired, they make the guy feel better by informing him that he is RETIRED!
But come to think of it, using 3 letters RET in place of 1 letter F doesn’t change anything. The guy has just been fired (at the age of 60). I will rather fire the job while I am still young

Being fired can be a life-learning experience. The last decent job that I was fired from taught me to try hard as hell to get my own business up and running.

Your resume reads a lot like mine - I’ve fired many employers and now am working full time plus working for myself. Though this does not apply to everyone, I never thought there was a perfect job for me, unless I could work for myself. I’m the toughest boss I’ve ever had (and my wife is starting to think I’m a tyrant!), but I’m living my dream - just waiting for the money to follow.

i only had one job before doing online marketing. but i quit so never felt the pain of being fired before. lol!

Hiya Shoe, am new to your blog and am in process of exploring favourites at present. This post is very relevant, and the advice you give is sage and sound. Labour issues are always a pain in the backside, and here is South Africa there is tough legislation to protect the workers. The only way to deal with labour issues this side is to employ specialised outsourced brokers that do all the mediations and paperwork, making the process a lot less personal. Willy nilly hiring and firing is definitely not on the cards for any business, as it gets expensive when you add a dash of bad decision making.