I’m downloading it right now. I haven’t even heard it yet and I’m my palms are getting all sweaty LOL.

As a reader, it boosts my trust level to hear your disclosure before I hear the review. I think it speaks well of the reviewer’s character to hear “full disclosure” first. I like that it gives me the option to put value in what you are saying or not…

Rand is talking a lot about Yahoo Search Marketing. I have submitted my app for this program long ago but have not heard anything back from them. My main site is getting a lot more traffic these days so I resubmitted today after hearing this interview. When is this program going to be out of beta and give the general public a chance publishing YPN Ads?

I listened to the debate — commercials and all haha — and I found it really interesting. I mean, both of you had really good points — your stand on responsibility for one’s actions/words and his stand on gaining people’s trust. Personally, I feel that disclosures are necessary for other forms of media, especially those that involve straight news. Blogging is more opinionated and personal, wouldn’t you say so? How could you possibly disclose every single point? A blog may have a lot of space, but you can only allot so little for footnotes and disclosure statements. You mentioned John Chow — perfect example of not having to disclose every single thing. He’s very transparent without appearing too cautious. You guys give your readers credit for deciphering and deciding on their own. I hear Rand Fishkin though. He’s awesome and I respect every word he says. It all boils down to this: to each his own. We all agree to disagree, but ultimately you do what you think is best. Really enlightening stuff.

[...] Update: Rand was a guest on Jeremy’s radio show, you can find the post and audio for it here. [...]

It was a great debate although, I think Rand missed the point in a couple of places. The “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” stuff happens all the time in business whether it’s online or off. So, to act like a blogger would need to disclose getting paid in cash for a post seems foolish when he doesn’t suggest extending it to those who financially benefit from posting or whatever.

To be honest, I lost a bit of respect for SEOmoz when he let us know that they have NDA’s with search engines. To me they are supposed to be covering the search engines, not in bed with them. That was far more troubling to me than affiliate links that don’t get (aff) tagged or anything like that.

When the relationship is based on trust, failure to disclose will damage that trust, for a lot of people if they find out.

That’s why the CNN example is a problem but product placement in entertainment is not. Nobody trusts “Friends” or “The Office” or John Chow, but some people trust CNN. And some people trust you too.

You claim you’re jaded and don’t really trust any recommendations you read. Is that really true, do you really do *all* the research *personally* for *every* decision you make in life? If your wife says they have a great steak down at some food joint, do you think she’s getting a kickback? Do you trust the recommendations of people you work with on a daily basis?

Even if you do trust no one, you still know full well that many (if not most) people out there are trusting. You say you don’t want them to trust you blindly. But then you come out and say that you never recommend anything unless you really believe in it. Why would you say that unless you are asking people to trust you?

Also isn’t it kind of hard to do research when you deem *all* sources to be biased?

[...] that debate Jeremy and I had on disclosure? We spent nearly an hour on the phone discussing the issue - the discussion was heated, but never disrespectful, and it’s pretty entertaining, too. MP3 [...]

“It all boils down to this: to each his own.” I think that is key. Everyone has their own opinion.. and No matter where you look online or offline people are helping each other out. weather a post or link or review.. May not be directly “paid” but because of that post you would expect somethign in return if nothing else better search rankings for that term

Okay mate here is my take:
http://www.smart-keywords.com/2007/06/rand-versus-shoe.htm

[...] that debate Jeremy and I had on disclosure? We spent nearly an hour on the phone discussing the issue - the discussion was heated, but never disrespectful, and it’s pretty entertaining, too. MP3 [...]

I’ve downloaded the debate–will have to play it a few times, though to pull out the good parts.
Jeremy, as I recall, you’ve said in the past that you don’t talk about (or endorse) everyone who approaches you. Why is that? Is that because you don’t believe in the product or service or their site? If that’s the case, then that’s fine with me because if you’re talking about it then I could assume that you’re going to get some sort of benefit (money/kickback/linkback/whatever) from talking about it.

I have no problems with people disclosing whether they’re getting paid or not; that’s up to the person actually writing or endorsing the product or service. There’s a time and a place to disclose such things. Sometimes you disclose and sometimes you don’t.

[...] came across the Post on Shoemoney’s Blog Debating Blogging Disclosure With Rand Fishkin On Net Income and figured i would throw in my 2 cents. In general I feel that everyone has motive or reason for [...]

Looking forward to listening to this in a quiet moment.

I get many emails every day about products and also review offers… text link placement offers etc… I talk about things I find useful or helpful getting paid for it has little bearing.

With that said I think people are idiots that do not use affiliate links when talking about a product.

Either I am a fool or the readers are (have) decided for themselves that the benefits of this site are worth the read.

I’m downloading it and look forward to listening to it tonight. I think it’ll be interesting because I’ve read both Shoe’s and Rands blogs and know where they’re coming from.

Don

Interesting debate, enjoyed listening to the show.

I kind of agree with both of you just not so strongly either way, I admire Rand’s honesty but also see your point of view and don’t have a problem with promoting a site you approve of by using an affiliate link. I’ve posted my opinion about this, despite still being fairly undecided!

[...] This week everyone seems to be talking about the debate between Shoemoney and SEOmoz following Rand Fishkin’s post last week about disclosing paid blog recommendations. This continued when Shoemoney and Rand Fiskin discussed their opinions today on Net Income. [...]

As long as your blog does not turn into a big sales pitch then there is no hard dropping the odd cash link

Both you and Rand argued your points very well and, if it were a boxing match, we’re looking at the lucrative money spinning return. Obviously with some kind of disclosure agreement first…

Both you and Rand have very different business models and that will mean you’ll never see eye to eye on this subject. That is to be expected and shouldn’t come as any kind of surprise.

The fact is that without trust, you have nothing. Rand talks about Danny Sullivan within the interview and suggests that he would lose credibility if he were to promote Yahoo!, for example, as a result of a financial kick back. Damn right he would which is why Danny would not promote Yahoo! purely because of a financial kick back and that’s where it all boils down.

Trust.

Either you trust your information source or you don’t.

Oops! Forgot to say thanks for the link.

DISCLOSURE: I was not paid any money by ShoeMoney to say thank you for the link. This post was brought to you by the good manners my mum instilled on me as a child. The forgetfulness in including it in my initial comment was brought to you by tiredness and an excessive amount of beer.

[...] that debate Jeremy and I had on disclosure? We spent nearly an hour on the phone discussing the issue - the discussion was heated, but never disrespectful, and it’s pretty entertaining, too. MP3 [...]

I think this was a great show. I could see both sides of the argument. Nice job hosting it.

did you listen to it yet? It is undoubtedly worth the time.

Interesting show but I would agree on your opinion on John Chow. He does mask his affiliate links but he also tells his readers why and how.
90% of his posts are about making money and he seems to be eager to make use of every opportunity he gets and he tells his readers about it.
I think this is more honest and non disclosing as many many other publishers are.

I meant I don’t agree on your opinion of John Chow

[...] Shoemoney debates Rand from SEOmoz on disclosure on blogs [...]

[...] Shoemoney debates Rand from SEOmoz on disclosure on blogs [...]

Not sure why my trackback didn’t work but here’s my take on it:
Shoemoney’s right
In the interest of full disclosure, this post may (I hope) lead to a link from shoemoney.com.

[...] Shoemoney debates Rand from SEOmoz on disclosure on blogs [...]

You’re right, there’s no reason not to include affiliate links if they’re available. Problem is, there’s a lot of cases where I find myself talking about things that I find useful or helpful–and there’s still too many companies out there that don’t have affiliate programs.

[...] , link cloaking , black hat seo , affiliate marketing The interesting discussion between Rand and Jeremy had me thinking about some of the things affiliates do to protect their links. I am talking about [...]

[...] a lot of buzz lately about blogger transparency. In the world of affiliate marketing, Shoemoney and Rand Fishkin facing off, and then in the world of PR, you have 50 bloggers taking bribes to review products. Well, this [...]

Same here, haven’t had time to listen yet, but will soon

when you brought up slickdeals rand said that he had bought from it in the past but wasn’t so big on it. i wonder if he knows that he’s google number 4 for “slickdeals”

Is it possible to make a transcript of this interview?

[...] right to get updates by e-mail.There was a debate on the recent Net Income Show between the host, ShoeMoney, and his guest, Rand Fishkin about disclosure of relationships when [...]

I was attracted to this post because of the title but was blocked from learning anything about it because it is in audio format. I’m deaf and was wondering if there was anything in textual format for me?

Thanks.

[...] seems to be talking about the link disclosure debate between ShoeMoney’s Jeremy Schoemaker and SEOmoz’s Rand Fishkin. They are debating whether disclosure is necessary when a paid [...]

[...] various issues on this blog but unfortunately I have just listened to the pre-recording that Shoemoney did with Rand Fiskin about full disclosure when blogging, and quite honestly whilst I empathise with some of the points [...]

[...] I was listening to and interview over disclosure policy over that Shoemoney, it reminded me that once upon a time I was planing to write a disclosure policy on few of my blogs [...]

[...] Shoemoney debates Rand from SEOmoz on disclosure on blogs [...]

[...] policies on blogs has been a hot topic lately…Jeremy Shoemaker and Rand Fiskin recently got into a healthy debate about their thoughts on disclosing affiliate links and other financial relationships. They pretty [...]

[...] a lot of buzz lately about blogger transparency. In the world of affiliate marketing, Shoemoney and Rand Fishkin facing off, and then in the world of PR, you have 50 bloggers taking bribes to review products. Well, this [...]

Being deaf doesn’t disqualify you from learning anything, if you want to get a transcription of it then go to a place like Escriptionist or search for other similar transcriptions services. You could also beg Shoe to put up PDF’s of his many wonderful audios on his own dime, which would be a great way for him to reach out to those who prefer to read instead of listen.

Great debate - I can see both sides of the coin and I agree with some points on either side… but at the end-of-the-day my vote would go to Rand on this one.

[...] Schoemaker and Rand Fiskin recently got into a healthy debate about their thoughts on disclosing affiliate links and other financial relationships. They pretty [...]

[...] interesting discussion between Rand and Jeremy had me thinking about some of the things affiliates do to protect their links. I am talking about [...]

[...] various issues on this blog but unfortunately I have just listened to the pre-recording that Shoemoney did with Rand Fiskin about full disclosure when blogging, and quite honestly whilst I empathise with some of the points [...]

[...] blogger disclosure debate - Rand vs. [...]

[...] blogger disclosure debate - Rand vs. [...]

LOL. downloading it right now..even if i am abouta month behind

[...] blogger disclosure debate - Rand vs. [...]

[...] debated Rand Fiskin on my radio show about blogging [...]

[...] those who do not remember I debated Rand Fishkin on disclosure and I think he would say I a fair debater. submit_url = “”; posted on January 18th, [...]

link doesnt work

disclose or not? the problem is, when advertiser offer you a big dollar for making a review by disclosing your post, then this will be too difficult not take the opportunity. you’ll be on dilemma.